OK, new guy here. I have been Muzzleloader hunting my entire life, starting out borrowing my dads .54 T/C Hawken. Damn that thing kicked a middle school age kid. Moved on to a Knight wolverine and now have a Encore. I want to get back to more traditional hunting and have a .45 Hawken on the way. What should I be loading it with? I'd like to try round balls and maxi balls. Looks like T/C doesn't make maxi balls anymore, but Track of the wolf seems to have a copy of them. Give me a list of what I should order from Track of the Wolf. What size balls with what pre-lubed patches. What lube for the maxi balls, if you recommend them. What loads should I start with? I use Blackhorn 209 in my Encore. I'm guessing that wouldn't work in the Hawken. Does the Pyrodex work ok? Lots of questions guys, just trying to get a good start with this.
T/C Hawken .45
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Load less powder in the 54 of Dad's you DO NOT need full charge loads.
Welcome to the forum.blairvt said:
IMO, you'll get the most bang for the buck if you shoot patched roundballs.
Either .440 or .445 diameter balls will do fine but as with all muzzleloaders one size will probably work better than the other size.
Unless you know the pre lubed patches are quite new, I don't recommend using them.
Often these pre lubed patches will sit on a shelf for a long while.
If they do, the lube breaks down the fabric and they can blow apart when they are shot.
Much better to buy unlubed patches or a piece of pure cotton cloth and cut your own.
The striped blue/white pillow ticking sold at Wal Mart works great. (It is about .018 thick).
The TC rifling grooves were made as a compromise so the gun would shoot patched balls or unpatched slugs.
If you shoot patched balls, select a thick patch, either .015 or .018 thick. (You will need a short starter to get the patched ball started into the muzzle. Once started, it will ram easily down to the powder load.)
For a patch lube you can use anything from spit (for shots that will be fired quickly after loading) to Bore Butter or one of the thousands of different patch lube formulas posted here on our forum.
Some have had success with Blackhorn 209 powder but many have not.
Pyrodex RS or P will work fine in your rifle. The Pyrodex P is preferred.
Hodgdon 777 also works fine but it is a hotter powder and it has been known to burn thru cloth patches.
The only problem I've had with Pyrodex is, occasionally it will hang fire for maybe 1/2 of a second.
Real black powder never hang fires so if you can get some, by all means do. 3Fg powder will work best in your .45.
The only negative thing I can say about real black powder is it fouls the bore rather badly.
After 3-5 shots you may need to wipe the bore with a slightly wet patch to remove the fouling.
(Pyrodex fouling doesn't seem to build up. I've shot over 20 shots in a row without the need for wiping.)
A good powder load will be somewhere in the 45-70 grain range. Many have found that about 60 grains is fine for hunting and it is also often the most accurate load.
As I mentioned, the TC's are rifled to shoot slugs with their .005 deep, 1:48 twist rifling.
I don't shoot slugs but I do know you will need to try several different types and weights to find one that will shoot accurately.
Their increased weight also raises the gas pressure in the breech so, if you shoot them it's a good idea to check the nipple often.
The hot gas will erode the small hole thru the nipple causing a loss of accuracy and hammer blow back.
Have fun.
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For .45 cal use a patch that is 1 1/8 - 1 3/8 in diameter and use a thickness of .010 -.015 for .445 diameter ball and .015-.018 for .440 diameter ball.blairvt said:
Easiest thing to do is go here.... https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?search=shooting patches
They have everything you need from round balls to maxiballs and everything in between.
Most of the stuff you learned about those modern muzzleloaders won't serve you when shooting a traditional side lock.
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Those were called poly patches.....they don't make them anymore.
Easy...just do like they did 200 years ago...
I used them poly patches back in the 70's. They worked real well and I would pick em up and flip em and use em again when I could find em. I see a few on GB for sale now and then but the seller is REAL PROUD of em and for the $$ I could make my own cloth patches for the remainder of my life.
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Lead ballblairvt said:
Cloth patch
Lube
Use what others have suggested, as a starting point, but experiment with the three things above to find the most accurate load for your particular gun.
Congrat's to you for finding a T\C Hawken in 45 caliber as they are a pretty scarce caliber. I bought one that was a kit gun several years ago and did some fixing up on it. Took some wood off and refinished the stock. It is the most accurate production rifle I have ever owned. I have only shot it with patched .44 cal. round balls and Goex 3F black powder. Never had a "need" to try conicals.
Were I ordering from ToW, in addition to all the recommendations, I'd order an extra nipple or two...just because I'm paranoid. You can also get one of those nipples with tubing attached for cleaning the rifle. If you buy patching material, wash it before trying to lube it; it's sized which is some kind of treatment they put on it, and it will resist lube to an extent.
You may also want to contact Dutch about his system. A solid $20 investment. http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
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I remember those plastic "cups". They were around for a few years but were found to be faulty for some reason I forget.
I think they were not reliable as far as keeping the ball in place on the powder. I could be wrong. I was married once.
I did all my experimenting with a kit built TC .45 Hawken. You can get very tight groups with them if you are patient and take care of details.
Dutch
I think they were not reliable as far as keeping the ball in place on the powder. I could be wrong. I was married once.
I did all my experimenting with a kit built TC .45 Hawken. You can get very tight groups with them if you are patient and take care of details.
Dutch
Pete G
76 Cal.
They were call "Poly Patch". Seems that I remember problems with them becoming brittle when temperature was low.
blairvt said:
They aren't around any more due to a couple of reasons.
1. Barrel bore diameters can vary considerably and the poly patch can separate from the powder.
2. The poly patch was very slick and in clean barrels would separate from the powder.
Projectiles that are separated from the powder create a bore obstruction. Bore obstruction lead to pressure spikes and burn barrels.
Give up on the search for Poly Patches.
"negative thing"??
We are supposed to be doing an old game the old way.
Real bp does what it does, that is not bad or "negative".
It is like saying a horse drawn carriage is bad because it does not have a V8 engine. :slap:
So I should have said, "One positive thing about real black powder is it fouls the bore, just like it did in the old days"? :grin:
While I'm at it I guess I'll add,
"Having a horse to pull your carriage has the added benefit of the horse needing to be fed, watered, curried and having its stall cleaned."
:rotf: :rotf:
I'll stick to my original statement.
Black powder fouling is not a good thing.
Yes, it can be dealt with easily but it can't be ignored like the fouling produced by Pyrodex.
(By "ignored", I mean, one can continue to shoot without wiping the bore after ever few shots.
I do not mean the gun can go uncleaned after a day of shooting.)
While I'm at it I guess I'll add,
"Having a horse to pull your carriage has the added benefit of the horse needing to be fed, watered, curried and having its stall cleaned."
:rotf: :rotf:
I'll stick to my original statement.
Black powder fouling is not a good thing.
Yes, it can be dealt with easily but it can't be ignored like the fouling produced by Pyrodex.
(By "ignored", I mean, one can continue to shoot without wiping the bore after ever few shots.
I do not mean the gun can go uncleaned after a day of shooting.)
