I have shot my recently purchased Hawken only once for accuracy at 50 yards. What size of groups should I expect? I am shooting .440 Hornady balls with .015 Ox-Yoke patches (.45 cal.). So far I can barely get a 6" group.
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T/C Hawken accuracy
- Thread starter tc45dave
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That really depends on allot of things. You state Hawken but many gun makers make their own version of the Hawken to the point that the name doesn't mean much except a certain style of gun. It should certainly shoot better groups than that but it sometimes takes allot of work trying different load variations. Patches, thickness, lube ball size, amount and type of powder and the list goes on. Was yours new and what brand is it? More info on your loads would help like how much powder? every little detail is helpful.
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A couple of questions. How accurately do you shoot open sights with a tack driver? I'm not trying to be difficult. Also what powder and how many grains? Were you shooting off a bench.
With open sights 3" groups are good for me at 50 with an accurate unmentionable but I have old eyes.
With open sights 3" groups are good for me at 50 with an accurate unmentionable but I have old eyes.
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Mooman and I covered similar ground. I have a TC Hawken 50 that likes 50 grains of 3f black and a .18 patch. It will hold the 3 inch group that I am capable of shooting from a bench. I would guess 45-50 grains would be a good target starting load.
Your title states that your rifle is a T/C "Hawken". Should be capable of reasonable accuracy with modest loads in the 50 to 70 grain (volume) of 3fg powder. What powder load were you using?
No matter what rifle, you will need to find the load of powder, patch lubrication and ball size that will deliver the best accuracy. T/C rifle have shallow, 1 in 48 twist rifling. They work best with a tight fitting load with lighter powder charges. Try 0.018 patches and your 0.440 ball.
No matter what rifle, you will need to find the load of powder, patch lubrication and ball size that will deliver the best accuracy. T/C rifle have shallow, 1 in 48 twist rifling. They work best with a tight fitting load with lighter powder charges. Try 0.018 patches and your 0.440 ball.
I shot 60 grs. of Goex 2F. I am not particularly good with iron or buckhorn sights due to having 'older eyes'. I shot off a Caldwell front rest and bag supporting the buttstock. I probably need 2 or 3 more range sessions to really get used to shooting for accuracy. I want to try 3F also. Thanks for the replies.
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dave45hawken said:
Dunno about 45 caliber, but my TC 50's and 54's, as well as a couple of 58 cal Big Boars, all shoot best with a little tighter patch than what you have there. I'm using .018" in all of them, and respectively .490, .530, and .570 balls. When I up the balls to .495, .535 and .575, THEN the guns like .015" patches.
Something to try anyway. I bet you stumble onto a great combo, and this shooting session was just the first of several to get you there.
After you shoot, look for your fired patches. They should be around 15 feet out give or take. They say allot. A patch that doesn't hold up, won't likely shoot accurately. The patches should look almost good enough to use again.
I won't school you on how to shoot,, you'll get that here and much-much more if you search the archives about all the variables.
You TC Hawken is capable of shooting one hole groups at 50 yards.
With open iron sights it is capable of 3-4" groups at 100yrds,, but with an average man with "some" shooting skills,, it'll do 6" @ 100 all day long.
You TC Hawken is capable of shooting one hole groups at 50 yards.
With open iron sights it is capable of 3-4" groups at 100yrds,, but with an average man with "some" shooting skills,, it'll do 6" @ 100 all day long.
Have more TCs than I should, 45 to 58 caliber; Senecas, Hawkens and Renegades; flint and cap. If one doesn't shoot patched found balls under 2 inches at 50 yards something is wrong. Most consistently shoot ragged hole. Suggest you contact Dutch Schoultz (http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/). Great guy. $20 for his 'system'. Follow it and you will save yourself a lot of aggravation. And have groups well under 6 inches at one hundred yards if you can do your part. A well maintained TC Hawken will do its part.
You can also find Dutch on the forum and PM him. Again, great guy. Passionate about helping others.
You can also find Dutch on the forum and PM him. Again, great guy. Passionate about helping others.
You need to work up an accurate load for that particular gun. I'd start at about 15 yards and work on the variables (amount of power, ball size, 2f-3f, patch thickness) until you get the tightest group you can, then adjust the sights to put the rounds where you want them. Then, increase the distance.dave45hawken said:
Lots of varying advice here.
Keep in mind, TC 'hawkens' have won many-many thousands of matches at all levels of competition. The rifle will do it if the shooter does his job. With original shallow groove TC barrels I favor a thin patch with tight ball. I used airplane cloth. Dunno if you can get it anymore.
Keep in mind, TC 'hawkens' have won many-many thousands of matches at all levels of competition. The rifle will do it if the shooter does his job. With original shallow groove TC barrels I favor a thin patch with tight ball. I used airplane cloth. Dunno if you can get it anymore.
I don't know where to begin.
You could be OK with .440 balls , but .445 would be better.
If you had weighed out your Hornady swaged balls to eliminate all those more than ne grain lighter than the heaviest ball in the 100 you purchased, If you bought your patching from a single source and used a compressed micrometer measurement as your guide and used around 75 grains of powder as your charge, things might tighten up for you.
It all seems to damn complicated at first but it's not
You are precisely where I was when I first started out in the '70s.
The 6' group tells me your patching is too thin OR your powder charge is too light OR less likely your patch lube was way too slick
See if there isn't a slightly thicker patching and see if that doesn't have an effect on your group. or use a .445 ball, anything to give you a better seal around the patched ball and get back to me we can probably work this out.
Dutch Schoultz
You could be OK with .440 balls , but .445 would be better.
If you had weighed out your Hornady swaged balls to eliminate all those more than ne grain lighter than the heaviest ball in the 100 you purchased, If you bought your patching from a single source and used a compressed micrometer measurement as your guide and used around 75 grains of powder as your charge, things might tighten up for you.
It all seems to damn complicated at first but it's not
You are precisely where I was when I first started out in the '70s.
The 6' group tells me your patching is too thin OR your powder charge is too light OR less likely your patch lube was way too slick
See if there isn't a slightly thicker patching and see if that doesn't have an effect on your group. or use a .445 ball, anything to give you a better seal around the patched ball and get back to me we can probably work this out.
Dutch Schoultz
My first build in 1976 was a .50 cal. TC Hawken kit and seeing this was my entry rifle into MLing, squirrels were on the menu. The load that was accurate enough to head hit squirrels was 50 grs 2f, an .018 thick patch and a .495 Hornady swaged RB. This combo worked quite well w/ the shallow grooves of the TC bbl. Used this rifle for both squirrels and deer but went to the Buffalo Bullet for deer. The 50 grs 2f for squirrels was overkill to be sure, but I gave up shooting .22s many years before.....and like to feel I'm actually shooting a gun. Have never weighed or miked both Hornady or Speer swaged RBs which were used interchangeably. Why? Because the developed, highly accurate loads didn't require it.
Used this rifle mainly for squirrels until I finished my .45 flint LR and used .445 swaged RBs, .018 patching and 30 grs 3f. This LR has head 100s of squirrels since 1978.
Hand loaded CFs for many years and was amazed that MLers could be so accurate w/o a whole lot of fiddling around. Used my handloading scale to find the right amount of powder thrown by my measure and then never weighed another charge.
Used various brands of caps and the priming charges varied out of my measure and in fact sometimes had to brush off the excess for the frizzen to seat and these variations didn't seem to matter either...judging from the excellent accuracy.
Was I lucky? Don't think I was because consistency of the important factors was always considered......Fred
Used this rifle mainly for squirrels until I finished my .45 flint LR and used .445 swaged RBs, .018 patching and 30 grs 3f. This LR has head 100s of squirrels since 1978.
Hand loaded CFs for many years and was amazed that MLers could be so accurate w/o a whole lot of fiddling around. Used my handloading scale to find the right amount of powder thrown by my measure and then never weighed another charge.
Used various brands of caps and the priming charges varied out of my measure and in fact sometimes had to brush off the excess for the frizzen to seat and these variations didn't seem to matter either...judging from the excellent accuracy.
Was I lucky? Don't think I was because consistency of the important factors was always considered......Fred
I had a TC that drove me nuts for years until I followed the Dutch system. It worked wonders. It can now shoot sub 2" at 50 yds and probably much better if I continue experimenting with my patch lube combo. Alas time and patience say 2" is plenty for any deer I'll shoot.
That shortcoming is all me. As said above a tight patch and a moderately heavy charge will probably dial it in.
Bon chance
That shortcoming is all me. As said above a tight patch and a moderately heavy charge will probably dial it in.
Bon chance
dave45hawken said:
This could be the major part of your problem. 2f specially in smaller bores (those .50 and under) seems to be, not necessarly, the best choice. Try this, go to 3f, cut your charge to 45 gr. for starters, your ball & patch combination sounds about right, from here add a little tweeking and you should be quite pleased with the rifle.
From a firm sand bag rest these rifles are quite capable of coffee cup (3")sized groups at around 100 yd.
Tom Compton
54 Cal.
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My problem w TC Hawken accuracy had to do w the bead front and u notch rear sights. I just couldn't get a consistent sight picture. Square sights work much better for me.
By the way I use FFg for everything including .36 and .40 flintlock. Seems to work ok as the .40 won 2015 Texas Flintlock Championship and used FFg in everything to win 2017 Texas ML Pistol Agg (25 and 50 yards each w any pistol, revolver and flint pistol).
By the way I use FFg for everything including .36 and .40 flintlock. Seems to work ok as the .40 won 2015 Texas Flintlock Championship and used FFg in everything to win 2017 Texas ML Pistol Agg (25 and 50 yards each w any pistol, revolver and flint pistol).
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I swapped out my sights on my TC Hawken many years ago for the "primitive" square sights. I too liked them better than the originals.
