T/C Hawken and Renegade

[dogfood]

So I've been lowkey fanboying T/C sidelocks for a while now and on a level I've known it for a while, but it kinda just hit me like a proverbial ton of bricks that they're very similar.
So my question is, "what gives?'. Slightly different stock architecture/furniture, and barrel length and width, but do those factors alone justify two similar but different models?
I mean they must have because both seem to have had pretty good production runs, I guess the question is where these two rifles made for wholly different markets or just people who'd prefer the ergonomics and aesthetics of one over the other?
And and all speculation is most welcome.
Cheers,
dgfd

 

[dragnetbill]

Find yourself a copy of the New 2nd Edition Black Powder Gun Digest (1977); chapter 31 is titled Birth Of A Muzzleloader; it is a synoposis of how T/C black powder guns got started. Warren Center is quoted often in the article. To the point of your inquiry, Center stated that the Hawken was designed with hunters in mind and that he settled on a 28" barrel for the ease of use in the woods.
When the Hawken was first introduced it was available in .45 or .50 only. Center is quoted in reference to the introduction of the Renegade (.54) in 1974 as follows: "There was a hell of a demand for a bigger cailber black powder rifle. We wanted to make a rifle that would sell for less money, meet the hunters' demands for delivered energy, and still maintain our standards of quality."
Also of note in the article is the mention of how T/C decided on twist rate for the barrels; Center stated that they developed the Maxi Ball when they couldn't get Minne Balls to group accurately. They tested numerous twist rates and decided on 1/48" because the Maxi Balls shot slightly better at that rate and he believed/knew at the time that most customers would be shooting them from their rifles.
The other brief teaser mention in the article is about the often brought up topic of outsourced barrel production. It says, "in the beginning" barrels were made by Douglas, but demand dictated that they make them in house.

 

[Eric Krewson]

The Renegade filled the niche for a working mans rifle at a lower cost for someone who wanted a workhorse without the bling and extra cost of a Hawken.

They came out just about the time many southern states realized they had an over population of does and instituted a M/L either sex season. Up to that point rifle hunting was bucks only with and killing a doe with any weapon was frowned on by the hunting population.

I could buy a new Renegade for $90 when the local Mgt Area instituted it's first either sex M/L hunt, this was probably around 1973. Everyone I hunted with bought a TC, all most all bought Renegades because of the price.

We were newbie hunters and almost never got a buck, the either sex hunt let us put meat in the freezer consistently for the first time. The attitude abut killing does changed quickly after the M/L hunts were established, a wise move by the DNR

 

[necchi]

or just people who'd prefer the ergonomics and aesthetics of one over the other?

The Renegade came along after the Hawken as more of a hunting and field gun with contours more closely related to modern hunting rifles, to be more like what most shooters grew up with and where accustomed to.

 

[dogfood]

So, if i'm reading this trajectory correctly, they then went to leas traditional/more utilitarian guns like the New Englander rifles?
And I imagine any time a state did something unique with its deer seasons like PA's flintlock only, and MA's smoothbore only, T/C tooled up to make guns to those idiosyncratic requirements?

 

[necchi]

Pretty much. And all most all of the commercial makers did the same.

 

[Des52]

The Renegade filled the niche for a working mans rifle at a lower cost for someone who wanted a workhorse without the bling and extra cost of a Hawken.

They came out just about the time many southern states realized they had an over population of does and instituted a M/L either sex season. Up to that point rifle hunting was bucks only with and killing a doe with any weapon was frowned on by the hunting population.

I could buy a new Renegade for $90 when the local Mgt Area instituted it's first either sex M/L hunt, this was probably around 1973. Everyone I hunted with bought a TC, all most all bought Renegades because of the price.

We were newbie hunters and almost never got a buck, the either sex hunt let us put meat in the freezer consistently for the first time. The attitude abut killing does changed quickly after the M/L hunts were established, a wise move by the DNR

It wasn't only the southern states, same thing happened here in Wisconsin. bought my Renegade in 1973, I think, long time ago to remember. I used it during regular deer season before they started a black powder season and everybody said I wouldn't get any deer with it because you had to get real close to shoot a deer with it. I would then put a maxi in a 100 yard target for them. Got more deer with that Renegade than all the other rifles I have. When they started the doe season it was 1 buck and 1 doe. Now they give out as many doe tags as you want.