t/c hawken problem

[270WSMANIC]

Last spring I posted about flyers with my t/c hawken 50 caplock shooting 250gr lee real bullets, got a lot of good advice here. Over powder felt wad helped but it seams that after firing just a few shots (2 or 3 ) the flyers come back. Now I have not yet been able to shoot a prb without patch blowing,burning,tearing to bits. Tried felt over powder wad,777 50 to 70gr. charge,ffg black thicker patch. No luck. A buddy who has shot in matches for years told me there is more than likley a burr/roughspot tearing the patches, and with the reals collecting lead causing their accuracy to deteriate in just a few shots. I tried lead lapping with valve grinding compound. Back to the farm to shoot sandbaged at 25yds first 2touching then group started to spread bad. I can still shoot sub-moa @ 100yds with my 270 WSM, with my 60 yr old eyes and using ghost ring rear and bead front sights on the hawken I should be able to hold 1 inch groups anyway at 25yds. I probley need to take the rifle to a shop/gunsmith with a bore scope. Any thoughts, could the crud ring formed by the 777 have croaded a spot in the barrel? I may try putting an inch or 2 of filler over the powder to move the seating position of the bullet/prb forward to fresh rifleing. I dont have much hair left to pull out.

 

[huntsman247]

Just curious, how does a tight cleaning patch run down the bore on your jag feel, smooth from top to bottom and back out or rough spots?

 

[270WSMANIC]

Thanks for the quick reply Huntsman, I just tried what you suggested a lightly oiled patch that I just run felt pretty good might have felt a little rought the last few inches where the powder charge would be, but not much so.

 

[Walks with fire]

If it were my rifle I would first check all the sights to make sure there was no movement. Next thing I would do is a small amount of glass bedding of the tang and forearm tip. These things may or may not help but they won't hurt in any way and it's cheap and easy to try. I have seen huge benefits from a little glass bedding.

What really puzzles me is the shreaded patching you mentioned. I own a rifle that would shoot two or three shots in the bull then go wild and other than shooting it alot to try to figure it out the only thing that I started doing is swabbing every shot and cleaning out the patent breech every third shot. I clean the breech with a .30 caliber brush with a patch on it. This rifle is also fully glass bedding from tang to forearm. This rifle will simply not group if I don't keep that breech cleaned out. I named the rifle Eureka when it quit throwing it's wild shots. The rifle is a pure tack driver.

The bore could have some lead buildup from shooting the conicals. Anything direct bore contact with lead above 1500 fps. will transfer some lead and it's easy to tell if it is built up with a lead solvent. If it comes out green or blue tint you have a lead problem. Leaded bores will tear and shread patches. I would also ditch the T7 if it were me but real black may be hard for some people to get.

 

[longcruise]

When you shoot flat base slugs you will build a crud ring where the bullet seats on the powder. Try wiping it away after each shot,

 

[Rat Trapper]

I'm thinking you still have some lead in the barrel to remove. The powder you are using is not the problem as I use it in several of my TC Hawkens with excellent results.

 

[ebiggs1]

I am going to agree with Mr. Rat Trapper. You still have some lead in the barrel. Get a lead remover solvent and stop using valve lapping compound, I wouldn't let it near any of my rifles!

I tried all sorts of “wads” to help certain loads and never found any that really worked except for keeping powder dry while hunting when you are not shooting quickly after loading. If the wad 'helps', it is probably masking another problem such as lead in the barrel. What do you have to lose, try it.
777 is not the problem but Pyrodex and GOEX is cheaper. :hmm:

 

[zdogk9]

for lead in the barrel. get a .45 cal brush and wrap it with a bit of COPPER chore boy untill it is a tight fit. then run it up and down the bore for about ten 15 cycles, the lead will be gone.

 

[270WSMANIC]

copper chore boy? What is it and where can I get it? Also If there is still some lead in the barrel I'm guessing it would guickly collect more lead assumeing the use of the 250 reals, and cause the next group to go wild. What do y'all think?

 

[Jim Evans]

Copper Chore Boy

 

[270WSMANIC]

was in the big city yesterday and went to wally world, no copper chore boy. Next time I'm out of the holler will try the dollar stores and hardwares up town. Meanwhile I have some lead/copper solvent to try my guess is will take a lot of elbow grease to get it all out with the solvent.
A little more history of the Hawken, I bought it used about 8yrs ago and initally tried a lee minnie ball, poor accuracy, next tried maxie ball with 90gr 777. Great accuracy 1 ragged hole at 25yds which is as far as I can shoot in my back yard. Recoil was pretty bad with the maxie. Bought a mold for 250gr reel, even with 90gr recoil wasn't bad and still great accuracy. Somewhere between then and the next deerseason I started getting the flyers. In between the two times I had of course cleaned ond oiled the bore before storing the rifle. At some point I had tried copper/lead solvent but maybe not enough to get all lead out, really want to try the copper chore boy trick, I'll find some somewhere. I want to get rid of all lead for sure and once again try the combos of prb, assuming if I get it to shoot prb it will also onceagain shoot the reals with a somewhat reduced load frome the 90gr charge. any thoughts?

 

[Jim Evans]

Try Walgreens,also O'Ceader makes one to that is also 99.9% copper,the ones at wally world are copper coated.

 

[Davemuzz]

You can test 'em with a magnet. If they stick to the magnet they are NOT 100% copper.

If you can't find 'em locally....order 'em from the web. Just order some "other stuff" to make the shipping cost make sense.

 

[270WSMANIC]

Got a 2-pack at the dollar store, figgered they were all copper. Just checked with the magnet nope there copper coated. Will try elsewhere or like you said try thr web. No Walgreens nearby.

 

[tiger955]

I found some copper Chore Boy at my local True Value hardware if it helps.

 

[huntsman247]

FWIW, my .54 T/C, before the Green Mountain barrel upgrade, would not consistently group PRB or the Lee R.E.A.L. bullets; no matter what I tried. I wanted a PRB shooter, hence the GM barrel. You say you get one ragged hole using the maxie ball; could be that is what your rifle likes best.

 

[270WSMANIC]

Sorry I forgot to mention I tried again with the maxieball after the problem showed up bad flyers same as reels. Replacing the barrel will be last resort. We have 3 day extended doe season 12/29-30-31, normally would use the m/l but this year will use my 270 WSM.
I'm thinking possibily the hot 90gr 777 load with the reels may have put so serious lead deposits in the barrel that I have not yet got it out. Once I get it out will work on the prb. Hopfully if I can get them to shoot without destroying patches, it will also then shoot the reels, maxies, pa hunters, maybe even the minnies.

 

[45-70cannon]

I have that same problem with my Leonard Day 50 cal. It eats patches, that is until I stuffed a .20 lubed patch down the bore, but it isn't something I want to do all the time. Y a need a huge hammer to do it.
I changed my powder charge so now it still eats patches but I am willing to concede defeat and use the rifle for ha-has at the range and use my Lyman GPR 54 for more serious endeavors.

 

[ssettle]

get a light and look down the barrel to see what kind of shape it's in. I use the plastic scrubbing pads when I really want to get the crud out.The green ones are the aggressive. Usually cut a piece and split it and wrap it around my cleaning jig and run it up and down the bore. If you have lead it will show up gray on the pad. I wouldn't give up on the barrel it may have build up your not seeing.

 

[StewartLeach]

270:

Are you adequately lubricating your Lee REAL bullets? One key to reduce leading is lubrication.

Smearing well with one of the commercial "Lube In A Tube" preparations should work. I use the Lee Improved Minie for hunting, and find two or three coats of the Lee Liquid Alox works very well.

As for removing lead in a rifle barrel, I find two ingrediants to be critical- a good modern bore cleaner and patience. Get a bottle of Shooters Choice lead remover, apply and let sit 24 hours, brush, patch, repeat several times.

White Fox