T/C Hawken Rifle discontinued?

[RedFeather]

I think they just priced themselves out of the market. Not that the other Hawken styled guns were much cheaper but $700 is getting up there. And don't forget that the T/C Hawken is kind of treated like an introductory gun, even right chere. How many times you see someone ask should I get one and another comes along with the old "Well, they are OK, I guess". At $700 that ain't inspirational. Besides, you could find one like new for at least half that inside of a week, they sold so many to impulse buyers.

 

[54ball]

I kind of think we are saying the same thing.

The market changed. You can "What if?" this subject to death but the market changed.
Modern hunters their core market, switched to the modern type rifles. Traditional types became more educated and wanted authenticity that the TC side locks could not provide.

 

[nkbj]

Well, look at it on the bright side. The currency wars are producing imbalances that will end the reproduction muzzleloader import market. Get a 2nd hand TC and be thankful.

 

[RedFeather]

Get two and be twice as thankful!

 

[petew]

I am happy I got 3 TC Hawwkens while the going was good. Traded a bow for a 50 cal Flint in like new condition , and purchased a 50 cal with 2 barrels,a 48" QLA 1/48 twist, and a 56" 1/66" TC "Roundball" barrel and about $500 worth of extras for $300 bucks. Stock , lock and barrels were pristine, then Picked up a great stock with all the trimings on it for $100, but the finish was bad, and refinished it with tru oil for the Roundball barrel. It looks fantastic with the new finish on it.All 3 shoot great and no issues with the locks or triggers or acuracy. They will be with me for a long time. I like the QLA. Loading is easy with cold fingers on a wet or snowy day, acuracy is good, and the crown is certainly protected from being damaged.
It is a shame to see the Hawken discontinued, but, the Internet comunity liked to bash them, and this certainly does nothing for sales. With luck I will score a 54 in flint and PC one of these days.

 

[AkDan]

honestly I think the inline market is the main focal point for SW grabbing tc. And now SW dropping the sidelock arms in the process. People look at muzzleloaders as a mean to an extended season. Not for a nostalgia or close range hunting tool. I agree if there was a market, they'd be making them!

That said I had my hands on a brand new traditions hawkin 50 today, and yesterday, and the day before . Now if I could only justify buying it ha!

 

[ebiggs1]

Why do you try and make this harder than it is. The reason TC is getting out of the side lock market is because there isn't one.

Why is this concept so hard to understand. The market is shrinking and there is more money in other guns right now. :shocked2:
The idea a few "snobbish" custom gun owners here call it a "entry level" gun is not an explanation. There are far more side lock shooters that are NOT a part of this forum than there are on the forum. :hmm:

 

[54ball]

What I find hard to understand is, why are you trying to argue when it seems we basically agree about the TC Hawken?

Here is some perspective. :hmm: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/261394/post/1046878/hl//fromsearch/1/

As far as the sidelock market, I agree there is not one for a modern sidelock that costs nearly a grand unless it is based on a era original.

Before it is said I know that the TC was somewhat identical to California made single key rifles made in the 1860s and 70s. Most interested in that time period are CW era or SASS.

As for the multitudes of sidelock owners that are NOT on this forum, what are they shooting?

Apparently not new TCs. I suspect used TCs, old CVAs, Traditions, Lyman Trades, cheaper Investarms TC clones, and more historical arms like Pedersoli and the GPR. Then there is the semi-customs and custom built guns.

Although small there still is a sidelock market. You can still get Traditions from from Bass Pro and Cablelas has a few on display, you said so yourself.

The idea a few "snobbish" custom gun owners here call it a "entry level" gun is not an explanation.

I see this sentiment in other threads and frankly, It's getting old.

It's troubling that someone with a custom gun or interested in historical accuracy is a snob and is somehow responsible for the downturn in the hobby.
Not withstanding we have been in The Great Depression the Sequel since late 2001.

 

[ebiggs1]

Not “trying” to argue, if that is how it seems. I am simply pointing out the way it is.
The bottom line is the side lock market is shrinking. No matter the reasons behind it.

The point of the link you posted is lost on me as I see no correlation to the loss of the market.

The snobbery of the custom gun owners has subsided in the last little bit on the the forum, I will grant you. Maybe you were not here a few years ago? It still irks me when someone tells another his gun is not worthy, not a heirloom, just junk or pretty nice for entry level. It's not for them to determine.

I see this sentiment in other threads and frankly, It's getting old.

All I can say is, it starts with one.

 

[BillinOregon]

I am not certain the sidelock market is necessarily shrinking so much as buyers are more sophisticated. Back in the 60s, TC brought out a half-stock rifle with New England trigger guard and called it a Hawken, even though it bears very little resemblance to Sam and Jake's originals -- inside or out. The TCs were well made, and compared to the cheap competition mostly from Spain (e.g., CVA/Jukar) their quality was obvious.
However, the buckskinner/re-enactor community underwent a sea-change in the 1990s or so, and it got to the point where a guy with a shiny TC, a suit of bright yellow chrome-tanned deerskin pants and war shirt and wearing a feather bonnet stood out as a farb from 100 yards off. As the TC product fell out of favor with those seeking authenticity, it remained for the ML hunting crowd. And again, among the ML hunters, there were two camps, those seeking authenticity and those seeking the minimum equipment to comply with states' ML hunting requirements. The rise of synthetic stocks, stainless barrels and the whole unholy tribe of inlines and ther sabots and pellets made the TC product untenable from a business standpoint.
At least that is my take on it -- and it just might be worth two cents, but not a penny more.
:wink:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

.............
The rise of synthetic stocks, stainless barrels and the whole unholy tribe of inlines and ther sabots and pellets made the TC product untenable from a business standpoint.
At least that is my take on it -- and it just might be worth two cents, but not a penny more.
:wink:

True!


And don't forget that the market is completely saturated with the TC products. The old owners sold out and the new owners don't care to knock themselves out selling a product that no one wants anymore, they are too expensive for what you get, better to buy used. Over the last 40 or so years, everyone and his brother has had at least one and there are enough of them out there now for them to feed the market for at least the next 20 years without a new one being made. In short, the market for them is no longer there.

Add to that, there are more than enough people, despite what some think and say, who want something better.... even on the beginning level, and they are willing to save the money to have it.

 

[cynthialee]

I really like my 'entry level' rifles and probably will keep the Hawken until the day I die.

When I was a rugrat watching my parents and their friends the TC rifles were the guns to have. All the guys would look at my dads .45 and drool and they would jocky for rights to shoot with the old man.
That sticks with a person
In some part of my brain there is the incorect information that nothing is better than a TC, especially the Hawken. I know better than that on an intelectual level, but it is hard to part with childhood misconceptions.

Even today when I go to a sporting goods store, the very first thing I will notice in the gun racks is the Hawken, if they have one. It is the one gun that will grab my attention and hold it every time.

So they may just be entry level guns to most. But to my misinformed subconcious, they are the best guns to have.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Cynthialee, in it's day, the TC Hawken was not an "entry level" gun, it was the most expensive factory made gun on the market and many people, including me at one point wanted to have one but just couldn't afford it. So, many of us went in different directions. I learned to build and to do that I and many others had to do a lot of research into what original guns looked like. That's where it starts, not only for builders bu others as well.

You can't help but love it, you were brought up with and that's all there is to it. If I had kept my old Zouave, I would feel the same way about it now - happy memories. To you and your happy memories, ma'am. :hatsoff:

 

[ebiggs1]

The rise of synthetic stocks, stainless barrels and the whole unholy tribe of inlines and ther sabots and pellets made the TC product untenable from a business standpoint.

”¦ everyone and his brother has had at least one and there are enough of them out there now for them to feed the market for at least the next 20 years without a new one being made. In short, the market for them is no longer there.

”¦ many of us went in different directions.

All sugar coated ways of say, "the sidelock market is shrinking."

 

[hanshi]

I still treasure my "entry level" guns. Wish I had kept that T/C I owned many years ago.

 

[mark/wi]

I just bought one, T/C in 54. Its old, rifled all the way out to the muzzle. Very nice shape, nice stock. Mark

 

[mark/wi]

I agree with you Va.Manuf.06, they were not enter level.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

I agree with you Va.Manuf.06, they were not enter level.

Right, they certainly were not. The American made (remember - BIG selling feature!) TC Hawken in 1974 was in the neighborhood of $250+. I bought my Italian Navy Arms Brown Bess as a kit for $135 (finished price was about $225 IIRC). That was considered a "cheap foreign gun" that wasn't even rifled and would blow up in my face! :shake:

Later, my first parts set to build a longrifle copied from the Bivens book on NC rifles cost me a little under $150. A 13/16, 42 inch long .45 cal. barrel from Dixie with breech plug for about $50, a small Siler lock kit from Bud Siler himself? $35 I think and a plain walnut full length stock blank bought locally for $35 and furniture from Golden Age cost me around $10.

The Bess kit and my parts set for my first longrifle cost less than the TC Hawken. The TC was far from cheap! Almost the equivalent of a current mid-range custom made rifle given inflation......

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

All sugar coated ways of say, "the sidelock market is shrinking."

To that I say :haha: and :bull:

 

[USMCGrunt]

I guess I don't see them as an entry level gun but more of a niche gun for folks like me. Personally I loathe an in-line muzzle loader with every fiber of my being! I'm of the mind if you are going out in the muzzle loader season you go with a side hammer cuz anything else is as wrong as two boys kissing! :barf: However, I don't need the historical accuracy or price tag of a custom rifle. This is where rifls like the TC Hawken and Lyman GPR come into their own. Both are quality side hammers that will do a good job during the deer season and that's what I'm after, no more, no less. Sad to see that TC is going away from the side hammer rifles but then again, when the hunting shows feature muzzle loaders using modern in-lines, I guess that was bound to happen.