T/C Hawken Rusty Bore

[localfiend]

Bought a Thompson Center .54 Hawken off of gunbroker for 275. Thought it was a good deal, as I've been looking for one for a while locally with no luck.








The gun looked really nice and clean in all the pictures. Description stated that the gun was in good condition and 100% functional, just needed a little normal cleaning.

However when I got in in this afternoon, the bore was dark, oily, and coated in patch fibers. So I ran a hoppes coated patch down the barrel.



I could barely get the patch and jag (brass) started. It was like pushing down through sandpaper. After a bunch more passes things smoothed out a bit, but after rinsing in the sink the problem was obvious:





I've never had a problem with gunbroker, nor have I seen a barrel this bad before, and I have a lot of old surplus weapons.

Gonna give the shop a call tomorrow when they open and send it back. I really don't think this barrel is salvageable - at least not for 275. I could probably get all the rust out with molassess or some other trick, but I'm guessing that the accuracy is minute of barn.

This post is mostly a warning to others.

Though I am interested in what some of you guys might do in this situation. It's tempting to perhaps haggle on price, and then buy a new barrel, but I'm not sure if that would be bad form and a simple return would be better.

 

[excess650]

If you can negotiate a partial refund, you can send it off to Bobby Hoyt in Fairfield, Pa to be rebored to .58.

 

[ohio ramrod]

certainly looks bad. But if you can't get satisfaction from the seller. You would be surprised what a good lapping with a lead slug and valve grinding compound will do. I have salvaged barrels that looked worse than that one.One was rusted so bad you could not see any rifling in it when the owner sent it to me, yet it cleaned up and lapped out well and was a great shooter. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[bpd303]

That's exactly what I would do. Ask for an adjustment on the price based on re-boring the barrel.

I have received refunds to cover repairs on several guns bought off of gunbroker in the past and both the seller and I were happy with it. Make sure you send the pictures of the bore after cleaning.

 

[jamesthomas]

I would hit with some 0000 steel wool and some gun oil and see how it does. It might surprise you and clean up a lot better than that. If it doesn't then I would try a partial refund from Gunbroker, Heck I would make a .56 cal. smoothbore out of it and look to buy another .54 cal. barrel if it was me.

 

[localfiend]

Re-bore could be an option. That would diversify my caliber standard though, which isn't that terrible I suppose.

Any idea what the going rate for a re-bore is?
Also, say I went to .58 cal. Would the rifling just be cut deeper, or is the whole thing redone?

Did a bit of looking and it seems new barrels are harder to find. Gonna check TOTW and see what they have.

Ohio Ramrod, when you say a lead slug what are you talking about? Coating a bullet in valve lapping compound and shooting it or something a bit more technical? :haha:

 

[bpd303]

I have fire lapped several barrels that were in pretty bad shape and they turned out to shoot better than I could hold the rifle.

I use 600 grit silicone carbide powder on a greased tight patch over a light powder charge. Fire the gun and repeat several times until the bore cleared up.
Google fire lapping a barrel, been used on cartridge guns for decades.

 

[410-er]

I would let the seller know.
I don't think it's as bad as I have seen some.Good scrubbing with 0000 steel wool and oil.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Well good news is since its a 54 caliber its a 1 inch barrel. Go to ebay buy a replacement hawken 54 barrel, or the renegade barrel will work as well and drop right into your hawken stock. If ya buy the renegade barrel you can get a 50, or 54 caliber. Then like the other poster said send the barrel in to Mr. Hoyt and make it a 58 caliber, 56 cal smoothie (or bigger). But since its a 1 inch stock on your gun you have more options on the table then if it were a 15/16 barrel.

 

[stinkyfeet]

A re-bore is going around 100-150 bucks right now depends on who does it and if its a smoothbore or rifled.
Check out my tc hawkens in the auction forum, not trying to sell it to ya, but it has a renegade barrel on it, being its the 1 inch framed old 54 cal stock.

 

[localfiend]

A re-bore is going around 100-150 bucks right now depends on who does it and if its a smoothbore or rifled.
Check out my tc hawkens in the auction forum, not trying to sell it to ya, but it has a renegade barrel on it, being its the 1 inch framed old 54 cal stock.

If it was a .54 I would jump on it. Nice to know that I do have more options for used barrels though. There just don't seem to be any new barrels available anymore.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I wouldn't do a damn thing to it until you either have a partial refund, have returned it or have sent out Lenny and Vito to "discuss" the condition of your purchase with the seller.

Rayl or Hoyt would be able to likely bore it out or even reline it.

Nevertheless, the condition was misrepresented, and the seller needs to be held accountable.

I've purchased rifles on-line before, and most recently a .50 Cabelas/Investarms from a member here, on the Classified Ads. Condition was even better than stated. If I had gotten your purchase, I would be immediately all over the buyer to make it right.

You've been flim-flammed.

 

[localfiend]

Yeah, I'm not buying anything, or doing anything else to the gun until I get satisfaction from the seller.

If they had been open when I got the rifle today it would already be taken care of. First thing in the morning I hope to have some sort of resolution.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

When you contact the seller about the bad bore, suggest you advise them you are prepared to return the T/C Hawken, but are willing to accept a price adjustment of $xx (suggest to them the amount you are willing to accept).

Before contacting the seller read the original listing to be sure of their terms and any exceptions to standard Gun Broker listing rules.

Also, I have read that some sellers will charge a "restocking and/or a relisting fee" for returns. Sellers may not mention the fee(s) or what percentage the fee is. Buyer gets a surprise - refund check with "restocking and/or relisting fee" deducted. Ask.

Also, suggest to anyone reading this if an auction lacks information on bore condition, has a lack of clear bore pictures, etc. Then ask about the bore. I like to ask: "Does the bore have any rust, pits or other issues?".

 

[mjulihn]

First let me say I have had several satisfactory transactions on GunBroker. However, recently I purchased a used BP revolver and when it arrived the front sight was missing. When I contacted the seller (a gun shop near Kansas City), they replied the ad says "as is". I said the ad also indicated any known defects are listed (there were none). I offered to pay for professional installation if they would pay for the $5 part and have it shipped to me. No deal. All I could do was leave negative feedback on this auction and order the sight myself. No dig on GunBroker here, but not all sellers are ethical and reasonable.

 

[izzyjoe]

I'm gona say that it don't look all that bad, I can still see the riflings, that one should clean up pretty good. I've seen a lot worse, as long as there's no pits in there it should be fine. To be honest that's one reason I won't buy a ML on GB, or anywhere else if I can't see the bore first. A little surface rust ain't gona hurt nothing, deep pitts that's different. I'd still contact the seller and express you're concerns.

 

[mooman76]

First let me say I have had several satisfactory transactions on GunBroker. However, recently I purchased a used BP revolver and when it arrived the front sight was missing. When I contacted the seller (a gun shop near Kansas City), they replied the ad says "as is". I said the ad also indicated any known defects are listed (there were none). I offered to pay for professional installation if they would pay for the $5 part and have it shipped to me. No deal. All I could do was leave negative feedback on this auction and order the sight myself. No dig on GunBroker here, but not all sellers are ethical and reasonable.

So by that reasoning if someone took your gun and smashed it in a vice, they could still fall back on +we said as is".

 

[localfiend]

When you contact the seller about the bad bore, suggest you advise them you are prepared to return the T/C Hawken, but are willing to accept a price adjustment of $xx (suggest to them the amount you are willing to accept).

Before contacting the seller read the original listing to be sure of their terms and any exceptions to standard Gun Broker listing rules.

Also, I have read that some sellers will charge a "restocking and/or a relisting fee" for returns. Sellers may not mention the fee(s) or what percentage the fee is. Buyer gets a surprise - refund check with "restocking and/or relisting fee" deducted. Ask.

Also, suggest to anyone reading this if an auction lacks information on bore condition, has a lack of clear bore pictures, etc. Then ask about the bore. I like to ask: "Does the bore have any rust, pits or other issues?".

All good points - that's how I was going to handle it, but I didn't even think of any hidden charges. The auction doesn't mention any return fees, just the standard 3 day inspection/return policy. I believe all the seller's have to abide by what's in the description, if they want additional fees it has to be stated.

I'm gona say that it don't look all that bad, I can still see the riflings, that one should clean up pretty good. I've seen a lot worse, as long as there's no pits in there it should be fine. To be honest that's one reason I won't buy a ML on GB, or anywhere else if I can't see the bore first. A little surface rust ain't gona hurt nothing, deep pitts that's different. I'd still contact the seller and express you're concerns.

I need one of them drop in bore lights - it would make taking pictures a lot easier. There are some pretty deep pits a bit further down that start on the lands and go deeper than the grooves.

It eats patches:

 

[excess650]

A rebore will include reaming to larger bore diameter and the re-rifling. Going from a .540 bore to .570 bore with deeper grooves should take care of it. Groove diameter of a TC .54 is only gonna be about .550 anyway.

IIRC, Hoyt has done smoothbores up to .62 on 1" barrels, but depends upon how deep the screw holes and dovetails are.

The bore pictures that you posted here should be adequate for the seller. Per the 3 day return, should you return it, you'll be out the shipping both ways. The rifle appears to be pretty nice otherwise, so its up to you to negotiate or return it.

 

[MSW]

well, for $275, you got a pretty good deal, (you've got way more than that in parts) but you're justified in your irritation: it simply was not as advertised, and a price adjustment is in order ... besides, you wanted a functional gun, not some parts...

having said that, I would contact Bobby Hoyt, and see if you want to re- bore to .58 or go all the way to .62 or 20 gauge smooth. Mr Hoyt just did a smoothie for me out of a nasty barrel which I got off gun broker - - it was advertised as wonderful bla bla bla - the seller was the ex- wife or widow and I got the feel she didn't really know very much about firearms, but she did admit that there was 'dirt' in the bore, and I intended to have the thing bored out anyway ...

Mr. Hoyt charged me (if I remember) $120, which included shipping, debreeching, reaming, rebreaching, chatting wit me on the 'phone, putting a long crown (not really a cone, but longer than a standard crown) and he even threw in a spare nipple. By way of a 'heads up,' he's very hard to reach - no website or e- mail, just a plain old 'phone (wouldn't be surprised if it had a dial), and he sometimes doesn't answer it (I assume that he's working and can't hear it) ...

when he finally picks it up, you will talk with one of the 'old school' machinists: expert, accommodating, and straight up honest - couldn't ask for more

(717) 642-6696 ... 700 Fairfield Station Road, Fairfield PA 17320 ...

if it were my call, I'd get it bored to 20 gauge... still, a .58 sounds pretty cool ... by the way, there are still some one inch T/C barrels out there, but with the Green Mountain company discontinuing production, and S&W having bought out T/C, this is probably a good time to ' stock up ' ...

make good smoke!