T/C hawken

[torpedo]

What would be a good guess as to the twist of my T/C Hawken .54 cal I inch barrel with serial # in the 500xxx.

 

[SgtMaj65]

A guess would be 1-in-48" unless it's got a custom barrel. I think that's what T/C had in both their Hawken and the Renegade. Someone else on here who has a Hawken would know. I have a 1-in-48" Renegade. I know Green Mountain made (makes) a drop-in barrel in a slower twist for PRBs, and also a faster twist than the 1-in-48", if memory serves. If that's wrong, somebody please correct me.

 

[dragnetbill]

The standard T/C barrel will be 28" long and come with shallow rifling 1 in 48".
T/C (from catalog no.15) did offer "due to popular demand" what they called Accessory Barrels with "THE ROUND BALL TWIST" of 1 in 66" with 8 grooves cut .010 deep. Those barrels were blued and were 30" long.

 

[torpedo]

Thanks you all, I was hoping for a slower twist as I shoot prb. That said it does shoot extremely well with the prb, so I guess I'm good to go.

 

[SgtMaj65]

My 1-in-48" twist T/C Renegade is very accurate with a PRB, and very good with conicals as well.

 

[mooman76]

1/48 isn't the best twist for RBs but it is still a good twist. You can find the twist easy enough. With a tight jag mark the ram rod and push it in. 1/2 turn going in 24" is 1/48.

 

[SgtMaj65]

1/48 isn't the best twist for RBs but it is still a good twist. You can find the twist easy enough. With a tight jag mark the ram rod and push it in. 1/2 turn going in 24" is 1/48.

I agree. My new Great Plains Rifle 1-in-60" is much more accurate with PRBs. Still, the Renegade is very good with PRB and conicals both, just not as good as my GPR. I only used my Renegade for 30 years for deer hunting with conicals. Made a huge mistake long time ago and didn't try PRBs on advice of a friend. It turned out to be lousy advice. I LOVE PRBs now.

 

[azmntman]

1/48 isn't the best twist for RBs but it is still a good twist. You can find the twist easy enough. With a tight jag mark the ram rod and push it in. 1/2 turn going in 24" is 1/48.

I agree. My new Great Plains Rifle 1-in-60" is much more accurate with PRBs. Still, the Renegade is very good with PRB and conicals both, just not as good as my GPR. I only used my Renegade for 30 years for deer hunting with conicals. Made a huge mistake long time ago and didn't try PRBs on advice of a friend. It turned out to be lousy advice. I LOVE PRBs now.

:metoo:

Sometimes good advise is terible. I had aguy bad mouth my current butcher something awfull, his shop was filthy, full of flys, you got someone elses meat etc etc.

Split a cow with a guy who insisted on using him and I never went elsewhere again. You could do surgery in his shop, never saw a fly inside, and he stops production and cleans all equipment between carcasses and I have gotten more meat than ever before?

I dont take much advise anymore on such things and try myself.

PRB has killed as well as conicals ever did for me. better trajectory, less expensive and cooler :thumbsup:

 

[morehops]

It would seen T/C settled on 1:48 barrels as a good compromise for both prb's and conicals. Usually gave better than acceptable accuracy for its intended purpose of putting big holes in large critters. Mine liked Maxi's better than rb's and I prefer conicals to rb's just because I find them simpler to use. That's the nice thing about these 1:48 barrels. They can keep both camps happy.

 

[dragnetbill]

It would seen T/C settled on 1:48 barrels as a good compromise for both prb's and conicals. Usually gave better than acceptable accuracy for its intended purpose of putting big holes in large critters. Mine liked Maxi's better than rb's and I prefer conicals to rb's just because I find them simpler to use. That's the nice thing about these 1:48 barrels. They can keep both camps happy.

There is an article in the New 2nd Edition of the Black Powder Gun Digest (1977) with plenty of quotes from Warren Center about the development of the Hawken. He stated that it was intended primarily for the hunter and they focused on the use of the Maxi-Ball.
He stated that they tried twenty-two twist rates for barrels finding very little difference in accuracy. He stated that they settled on 1 in 48" because it was slightly more accurate.
Most will find their T/Cs shoot prb better than they can hold out of these barrels.
It doesn't sound from the article that compromise accuracy was a consideration in deciding on the twist rate; but if we put ourselves in the place of the testers at T/C back in the day we probably wouldn't have even thought about a compromise twist after finding both type of projectiles shot well out of the 1 in 48".

 

[Jimbo47]

I shot both PRB and conicals this past weekend with my 1 in 48 Hawken.
Only difference that I saw was the conical cut a prettier hole.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The 1 in 48" twist rate is one that is fairly common in muzzle loading rifles. The Hawken brothers used the 1 in 48 twist in all their rifles and those rifles were intended to use patched round ball. The big difference is the depth of the rifling. T/C rifling is shallow, perhaps 0.004 to 0.006" in depth. Other rifling has grooves slightly greater than 0.010" in depth. A tight load so the patch and ball ride along the grooves and spin is required. You want a lubricant that can partially clean the bore on loading while not being so slick that the patch and ball don't follow the grooves.

The challenge is not to overcome a "compromise twist" but to find a patch, lubricant, and ball combination that provides acceptable accuracy.

 

[SgtMaj65]

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[ohio ramrod]

It is my belief that the TC's 1/48 shallow grove rifling was called a compromise because of the groove dept . Deeper than usual for mini's, shallower than usual for prb. The 1/48 twist was probably the most popular twist in the "old days" The Hawken brothers used it extensively. Back then most people used lower powder charges than many use today. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[Rifleman1776]

It is my belief that the TC's 1/48 shallow grove rifling was called a compromise because of the groove dept . Deeper than usual for mini's, shallower than usual for prb. The 1/48 twist was probably the most popular twist in the "old days" The Hawken brothers used it extensively. Back then most people used lower powder charges than many use today. :idunno: :idunno:

The shallow rifling is there for a simple reason. Namely, speed and economy of manufacture. They could pull a button through easier and faster if they didn't cut deeply. For those who question accuracy, I'll betcha more matches have been won with TC so-called 'hawkens' than any other single model rifle. With right prb/patch/lube combo they will shoot very accurately.

 

[SgtMaj65]

:thumbsup:

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Rifleman,

I would agree with your assessment. If people find poor accuracy with the 1:48 pitch it is likely due to the shallow rifling.

I recently sent a T/C Hawken with 1:48 pitch in to Bobby Hoyt and, on his wise counsel, had him cut the rifling deeper. Results are fantastic with PRB!

 

[coloradoclyde]

I never guess.....I measure.

 

[BrownBear]

I recently sent a T/C Hawken with 1:48 pitch in to Bobby Hoyt and, on his wise counsel, had him cut the rifling deeper. Results are fantastic with PRB!

For some reason, that possibility has never penetrated my thick old noggin. Always looked at Hoyt as a source for rebores to larger calibers. But what a good idea and money well spent!

Thanks! :thumbsup:

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I'll let you discuss price directly with Mr. Hoyt. But my personal opinion is his fees were more than reasonable, especially for simply re-cutting existing rifling.

I thought, "why didn't I do that before?"