T/C New Englander

[GriscomRun]

I viewed one recently as I was interested in a shorter rifle and maybe a tad lighter and handier in the thick.
In the description the seller stated he checked the twist and found it was 1-60. I thought it would be 1-48.
We know T/C mad the Pa. Hunter in 1-60. Could this be right ?

 

[bubba.50]

Checking twist with a patched ramrod gives a guestimate at best and can be very inaccurate at worst. My money's on the standard TC 1 in 48 twist. With the possible exception of the Pennsylvania Hunter/Match Target guns, TC roundball barrels are marked with the twist on the barrel & I'm pretty certain the New Englander was never offered with such a twist.

 

[nkbj]

Hmm, just thinking out loud...

Is this a .54?
Does the barrel still say .50?

 

[lonedave]

My factory .54 T/C New Englander barrel is 1:48.

 

[bubba.50]

Don't know right off what the small-bore Seneca/Cherokee twist was but, other than the fast-twist White Mountain Carbine, the roundball twist Pennsylvaniia Hunter/Match Target and the very rare Cleland Match, all TC's from 45 to 58 cal were rifled 1 turn in 48 inches. The factory roundball barrels from the Fox Ridge Outfitters(TC's custom shop) are plainly marked with the twist inside a banner on the side of the barrel.

 

[excess650]

TC Tree Hawk rifled barrel also used the quick 1-20" (spec). IIRC, some odd TCs had a 1-38" twist, kinda thinking it was a ..50 WMC with QLA.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Sometimes I come across old TC adds, and it never stops amazing me the things they used to make. I can not confirm that 1:60 is a factory twist for a New Englander, but I wouldn't bet against it. I actually think it is 1:66", but close enough. Most, if not all were 1:48". Their carbines were usually 1:20", although even the scout rifle carbine came in a slower twist once in a while. Possibly that 1:38". It's also possible that the guy has another model that happens to look like a New Englander, but really isn't. I know I've seen a pistol grip version of the New Englander, but it wasn't called a New Englander. Everything else on it looked the same. I'm fairly sure that was a slow twist.

TC definitely made slow twist barrels, although rarely, but from what I've seen they were all shallow button rifling, so I doubt the very slow twists are any better off than the 1:48" standard, which works fairly well. The only 1:20" twist I have is the scout pistol, but that would be plenty accurate for 75 yard shots with a rifle stock. It really doesn't seem to shoot that much different than my 1:48" Renegade, although being a pistol, is much harder to test accuracy potential.

 

[dragnetbill]

From T/C catalog No. 15 (1988):
New Englander in .50 or .54 (1 in 48 twist)
Also, Pennsylvania Hunter 1 in 66 twist ".010 CUT rifling."
Additionally, accessory round ball barrels for Hawken and Renegade 1 in 66 twist ".010 CUT rifling."
And, Cherokee in .32 has "1 in 30 twist", in .45 it has "1 in 48 twist."

 

[beardedhorse]

I used a White Mountain in .54 successfully for some hunts. A friend just had a .50 cal TC barrel rebored and rifled by Bob Hoyt to just under .58 for less than $200.00. The White Mountain is much lighter, shorter and more maneuverable than my full stock flint hawken but its trigger is atrociously coarse and heavy. Thinking of replacing it with a single set, double phase trigger.

 

[Rawhide67]

Sometimes I come across old TC adds, and it never stops amazing me the things they used to make. I can not confirm that 1:60 is a factory twist for a New Englander, but I wouldn't bet against it. I actually think it is 1:66", but close enough. Most, if not all were 1:48". Their carbines were usually 1:20", although even the scout rifle carbine came in a slower twist once in a while. Possibly that 1:38". It's also possible that the guy has another model that happens to look like a New Englander, but really isn't. I know I've seen a pistol grip version of the New Englander, but it wasn't called a New Englander. Everything else on it looked the same. I'm fairly sure that was a slow twist.

TC definitely made slow twist barrels, although rarely, but from what I've seen they were all shallow button rifling, so I doubt the very slow twists are any better off than the 1:48" standard, which works fairly well. The only 1:20" twist I have is the scout pistol, but that would be plenty accurate for 75 yard shots with a rifle stock. It really doesn't seem to shoot that much different than my 1:48" Renegade, although being a pistol, is much harder to test accuracy potential.

I once saw a TC Plains or Great Plains Rifle. Looked like a regular New Englader but had pistol grip type stock, not the usual straight stock. Despite the similarity in names, this was not a Lyman.

 

[bubba.50]

I once saw a TC Plains or Great Plains Rifle. Looked like a regular New Englader but had pistol grip type stock, not the usual straight stock. Despite the similarity in names, this was not a Lyman.

The TC was the 'High Plain Sporter'. The 'Express Rifle' was pistol gripped too and had double flip-up rear sights.

 

[megasupermagnum]

The express rifle is the one I was thinking of. They look just like a New Englander lock, tang, barrel, etc., except with a pistol grip stock. I'm pretty sure the only one I ever saw had a slow twist barrel. They are rare, I've only ever seen one.

 

[bubba.50]

The express rifle is the one I was thinking of. They look just like a New Englander lock, tang, barrel, etc., except with a pistol grip stock. I'm pretty sure the only one I ever saw had a slow twist barrel. They are rare, I've only ever seen one.

Ya don't see many of them. The tang is different, shorter & a bit more curved due to the grip. Not sure on the twist.

 

[Grimord]

The T/C High Plains sporter was my first muzzle loader. It is a 50 caliber with a 1:48" twist. It came standard with a T/C tang mounted peep sight and pistol grip stock. It has a round barrel like the New Englander, and the barrels are interchangeable with New Englander barrels. I still have the gun, but it sits in the back of the safe now as I now shoot mostly flint locks.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I viewed one recently as I was interested in a shorter rifle and maybe a tad lighter and handier in the thick.
In the description the seller stated he checked the twist and found it was 1-60. I thought it would be 1-48.
We know T/C mad the Pa. Hunter in 1-60. Could this be right ?

No I think he doesn't know how to properly measure the twist with the bore, or got the info off the internet.

It's possible and more likely he is looking at a photograph of a Pa Hunter and some note that it has a 1:60 twist rate, and is confusing that with the New Englander. In fact the PA Hunter with a 32" barrel had a 1:66 twist rate. BOTH rifles have octagon to round barrels, and can be tough to tell apart in a photo.

The New Englander is a very good caplock, and (iirc) was the only rifle made from the T/C factory to take a matching 12 gauge barrel. (sold separately) They are so nice that I gave one with both a .54 and a 12 gauge barrel to my son on his graduation day. The twist rate is 1:48, and providing that the bore was well cared for, it will shoot conicals and round ball well. BUT..., no real need to be a recoil junkie...shoot round balls. The style is similar (imho) to an English sporting rifle of the 19th century.

LD

 

[bluemule66]

New England barrels are round only. No octagon. You may be thinking of the white mountain carbine?

 

[pilot]

I have a PA Hunter and have owned it since new. I had no idea I could get a 12 gauge barrel for it. On the hunt now.

 

[bubba.50]

No I think he doesn't know how to properly measure the twist with the bore, or got the info off the internet.

It's possible and more likely he is looking at a photograph of a Pa Hunter and some note that it has a 1:60 twist rate, and is confusing that with the New Englander. In fact the PA Hunter with a 32" barrel had a 1:66 twist rate. BOTH rifles have octagon to round barrels, and can be tough to tell apart in a photo.

The New Englander is a very good caplock, and (iirc) was the only rifle made from the T/C factory to take a matching 12 gauge barrel. (sold separately) They are so nice that I gave one with both a .54 and a 12 gauge barrel to my son on his graduation day. The twist rate is 1:48, and providing that the bore was well cared for, it will shoot conicals and round ball well. BUT..., no real need to be a recoil junkie...shoot round balls. The style is similar (imho) to an English sporting rifle of the 19th century.

LD

No octagon to round on the New Englander. And the Tree Hawk was also available in 12ga.

 

[bubba.50]

I have a PA Hunter and have owned it since new. I had no idea I could get a 12 gauge barrel for it. On the hunt now.

You can't get a shotgun barrel for a Pennsylvania Hunter unless you have an extra barrel & get it bored smooth. The Italian clones of TC's Hawken were available in 20ga at one time. if you could find a barrel for one'a those it could likely be made to fit your gun.

 

[nkbj]

Love the left handed New Englanders. Currently deciding what to do with an extra .50 barrel.
Lyman #470216 is the winner so far with NEI #485446 a close second.
Got an Andy Fautheree globe front sight and TC peep ready to go.
The NEI might be the better choice due to all the old .445 hollow base and .437 round ball molds.