T/C single trigger: Way heavy,strong main?

[Kylongrifle]

Ok, I just got a like new Cherokee..It has the single trigger. I love the little gun but Im looking at a 10-12 pound trigger..Im not joking..Ive taken it apart and done the usual. Polished the sear. Made sure the tumbler and sear are moving freely. made sure the sear arm isn't dragging..After all this Im still looking at a 8-9 pound trigger :idunno: The one thing that really stands out is the strength of the main spring..From the first time I cocked this little gun I though" This spring is ridiculously strong" Its easily 2x-3x stronger than the mains on any of my other guns..Even though the sear and tumbler are smooth the pressure seems so great that's its just overpowering the trigger? does that even make sense :youcrazy: Or am I way off :idunno: Tell me if im missing something or do I need to lessen the spring tension somehow..Im an exp'd heat treated with commercial quench and kiln but I have no idea what alloy these springs are or the heat treat used on them..Replace spring, smaller spring? or am I overlooking something else??? Thanks

 

[Eric N.]

I have a Treehawk that had a 11 lbs trigger pull. Sent it back to T-C,they fixed it.I had them set at 4 LBS.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I suggest you put a leather over the nipple and slowly pull the trigger while watching the hammer. If the hammer starts to move slightly back before firing it is a sign the full cock notch has an acute angle to the contact point and you are actually fighting the main spring .The notch should be at exactly 90 degrees , less than 90 you have to fight the main spring, greater than 90 it will "push off" and not hold. :idunno:

 

[don hepler]

My Cherokee rifle has double set triggers, so I would imagine, your rifle could be converted, to double set. As for the spring. I am the "King of springs". Half of all my guns have had the springs changed. I bought a box of a variety of springs and buy some from hardware store. What I do, to change the hammer spring on most guns, is to find a spring that is a few thousandths smaller in diameter and cut it to the same length as the original. This will cut the trigger pull down by a lot, in most cases. I don't like to cut original springs. If you look at spring kits, sold by Brownells, and the like, that's what you get. If a spring measures .040, then I look for a .036. It will slow the hammer down, but you will need to test the function. If you go overboard on wire diameter, it will not be reliable and may slow the hammer fall too much, causing the gun to not be accurate.

 

[Kylongrifle]

Eric N: just curious how long was your tunr around?
Ohio Ram rod: thanks, Ill double check that..
Hadden West: I don't really want to cut or alter my original spring either..Id rather try a different one..This one is easily 2x as strong as the spring on my renegade..
So far I haven't altered the lock, only polished the sear and made sure the tumbler and sear arm were working correctly.

 

[don hepler]

Well, I'd try a different a different spring. I know the main spring is pretty stout, I had to take it apart, and the mainspring guide rod had a little bend and I tapped it with a plastic hammer and it shattered like glass. I had to get my brother to machine a new one. Part's are hard to find for the Seneca, Cherokee, and the Patriot. The Patriot has many of the same parts in it's lock.

 

[Bugflipper]

How about pulling your renegade spring and trying it? If it gets it to where you want it then fine. Most likely the heavy spring would work fine as well on the renegade if it has a set trigger, problem solved. If it's the hunter model renegade with single trigger then you could just order another hawken or renegade spring.

 

[Vaino]

I agree w/ "Ohio Ramrod" that the tumbler notch/sear nose are such that the trigger is fighting the mainspring. Just corrected the same situation w/ a Chambers' Siler lock {they don't get every lock perfect}.Went from 6# pull to 3#. As was said....care must be taken so that the engagement angle of the tumbler notch/sear nose is 90 degrees along the tumbler radius. If there's too great an angle over 90 degrees, the sear will slip off the tumbler notch and not stay cocked.

Weakening the mainspring or sear spring is just "skirting the cause" of your heavy trigger pull.

Many production locks have the wrong angles between the notch and sear nose because of the safety factor and also because the factory doesn't want to spend the time to do it right {economics}.

Also make sure that the trigger isn't binding on wood in the inlet.....Fred

 

[Walks with fire]

I have TC Pa Hunters; same lock as the Hawken uses but PA Hunters have single triggers. They are flint locks. I don't modify anything in the lock other than replace the spring that pushes down on the sear arm with a lighter one. I used a ball point pen spring. The spring I am talking about is housed in a closed end cylinder. I have heard others have ground off a few coils to make it lighter; I never tried that.

I never measured mine with a gage but for me they are just right.

Let me state right now; I am not giving advice to modify a trigger. I am only stating what I have done with mine. Modify your triggers at your own risk and I am not responsible or liable in any way for your thoughts, actions or carelessness.

 

[don hepler]

The springs in Hawkens and Renegades are much larger in dia. than Cherokee and Seneca and will not inter-change. The thing about traditional muzzleloaders, is they do not have the triggers and hammers,(or Cocks) mechanically tied together. In a modern rifle, the trigger and firing mechanism "are" mechanically tied together. On a double set trigger, the geometry is not as important, because you are cocking the main trigger, by setting the other trigger, and it's acting like a hammer, slapping the sear bar. On a single trigger, the geometry, or leverage is directly putting pressure on the sear bar, and the amount of pressure needed, becomes apparent. Early TC's had double set triggers, and could overcome the stiff springs, single triggers are often heavier. The large loop trigger guards were intended for use with gloves.

I agree any modifications, are at your own risk and judgment, Any aftermarket spring kit will offer the same warning.

 

[M. De Land]

Is the spring flat,coil or combination coil? If flat than you can thin it on both axis keeping file or grind striations parallel to spring body and around bends. The bends,if any, will often have corner cracks in them from forming when heated and it is important for spring life to get these sanded out in the same direction,leaving a radius on the corners, especially out side.
If coil you can clip coils or wind another if you have access to a lathe.
Combination coil, (coils and levers)often loosely called torsion springs, usually require winding a new one with smaller diameter wire.
I generally wind my own now from various diameters of piano wire bought at hobby shops.It is not particularly hard to do and takes way less time than searching for a new one or waiting for a replacement from the manufacturer . Mike D.

 

[Ken Rummer]

I have a TC Hawken, w/ set trigger. Initially it had a heavy single trigger pull. I slowly removed coils from the trigger spring and got a trigger pull of approx 4 lbs after grinding off approx. 1.5 coils.

I did this about 6/14/ 2008 based on a post on this forum discussing the same problem. I think this earlier discussion gave some justification for this method. I think there were pictures also.

It might be best to have a spare spring before grinding . Hope this helps.

 

[Billnpatti]

Eric N. said that T/C fixed the problem for him. I don't know when this was but I have heard of many difficulties in getting them to take care of traditional firearms or backing their "lifetime" warranties in recent times. Before sending the lock to them, give them a call and make sure that they will do the work that you need. If they will, that is the way to go. But, don't be surprised if you get blown off by them. If that becomes the case, then it would be best to follow the advice that M.D. gave you about making a new spring from piano wire from a hobby shop. He knows what he is talking about.

 

[Eric N.]

Turn around was 10 days. At the Same Time,I had them reset the trigger on an Encore 4 1/2 to 2 1/2 lbs.. At least 10 years ago. Good Luck!