T/C Trouble's

[kelljp]

I've a couple of TC Senecas, they both like 30 grains of 3F Goex, .350 round ball. I've found the patch makes alot of diffence.
For me .015 lubed patches works.
Track of the Wolf has the nipples.
I grab everyone of them or TC Cherokees I can afford. I know you've thought of it, but to me it looks like your front sight may need filing.

 

[Bigpete]

I've a couple of TC Senecas, they both like 30 grains of 3F Goex, .350 round ball. I've found the patch makes alot of diffence.
For me .015 lubed patches works.
Track of the Wolf has the nipples.
I grab everyone of them or TC Cherokees I can afford. I know you've thought of it, but to me it looks like your front sight may need filing.

Why would it need filing ?

 

[Bigpete]

The

Are you sure you have a Hawken model? T/C made a scaled down model called the Seneca that looked similar to the beefer Hawken. I don't believe that they ever made a Hawken model with a .36 barrel.
Assuming that it is a Seneca, you should refrain from your 70 grain load; the maximum load for the Seneca .36 in the T/C manual is 60 grains and that is twice as much powder than I've ever used in mine. A T/C manual dated 7/1/90 lists loads for the Seneca starting at 40 grains fffg which they state is the load they found to be most accurate. As necchi stated above a new nipple is a good place to start. Additionally if the rifle was stored long term with something like bore butter in the barrel the grooves could be caked with dried up lube and may need a good scrubbing.
Additionally, you should check that your rear sight is not loose. Also the Seneca rear sight has what the manual calls a "Positive Lock" set screw for windage. It is a small allen head screw in the front (as you look at the sight from the muzzle) of the windage base. It is what it is; in my experience if it is not tightened down the windage blade has quite a bit of play unless the elevation is all the way down.
A good photo of your rifle might help to identify exactly what you have.

Sights are definitely not loose. I've cleaned the barrel out already. It most likely is a Seneca.
Interesting, my fiancé was videoing me shooting it,and there's considerable smoke coming from the nipple when fired. So,I'm pretty much going with the nipple being shot out.
For what its worth,I definitely don't want to use 70gn,it was listed as a max charge from some load data a mate sent me,and just happened my powder measure is 35gn so I tried 2 scoops and immediately ( and unfortunately) got tighter groups. I've tried 10 thou,15 thou,and 20 though patches,and so far the 20 thou with 70gn has been most accurate, but I'm wondering if somehow the fact its overloaded is making the pressure a bit more stable somehow. Either way,I don't want to use that much powder,I bought the rifle for the intention of hunting small game such as rabbits,hares,and foxes,and maybe the occasional feral goat,and I wanted it to be more economical and quieter to shoot than either of my 50s or my 12g. So its some new nipples ( I'll get some for my dikar hawken too ) and I'll retest it then. I actually didn't know a shot out nipple could make it shoot so bad,but I guess it makes sense !

 

[Bigpete]

Here's a screenshot from the video she took. Definitely something funky going on there

 

[Bad Karma]

As I said,I can't readily get other powders. I'm stuck with 2f. You're idea of the nipple being drilled or worn out may have some merit,as water runs pretty darn freely from it when I clean her. Still,I doubt that contributes or detracts from the accuracy.

Nipple wear is a significant contributor to inaccuracy in muzzleloading arms. Small bore rifles tend to suffer more from nipple orifice erosion.

2f is just fine, not ideal perhaps but i should provide an accurate load once you have nipple, patch and ball sorted out.

 

[Bad Karma]

Why would it need filing ?

It doesn’t… if you want to lower the point of impact you can always elevate the rear sight. Filing the front would raise the point of impact.

 

[Bigpete]

Nipple wear is a significant contributor to inaccuracy in muzzleloading arms. Small bore rifles tend to suffer more from nipple orifice erosion.

2f is just fine, not ideal perhaps but i should provide an accurate load once you have nipple, patch and ball sorted out.

Yes,I'm confident now that it's the nipple worn out. Funny,I've never even heard of it or experienced it,and I have been shooting my other hawken for about 10 years now,but only for hunting ( aside from original load development and occasional sight checks ).

Yes,2f isn't ideal perhaps,is definitely dirtier,but I'm confident I can get a load sorted out using it.

 

[Bigpete]

It doesn’t… if you want to lower the point of impact you can always elevate the rear sight. Filing the front would raise the point of impact.

Yeah,I can't work out how that guy figured I needed to file the front sight from a picture lol. And yeah,it actually needs a slightly taller front sight,as the rear sight is virtually down as far as it goes,and I hold dead on with my sight picture and don't like using the old 6 o'clock hold

 

[gvandersluis]

Just recently bought a .36 T/C Hawken,and I'm having the devils own trouble getting it to shoot good groups. I've only got access to Wano 2f,and I'm using home cast Lyman .350 round ball. To get it to shoot any good at all I'm having to use 70gn of 2f and a 20 thou patch,but that's blowing the hammer back to half **** and is a real pain in the butt to load after 2 shots. 35gn of 2f just will not shoot at all,we're talking 4 or 5 inch groups at 25m. I don't have ready access to myriads of different powders and projectiles like you guys in the USA do,so I'm adamant to make it work. My next try I'll be using a flask that measures 21gn per load,and trying some 3mm thick leather wads between the powder and ball,as doing that has helped in the past. Does anyone else have one of these rifles,and if so,what load do you use and did you have heaps of trouble like I seem to be ? I'm not new to this,my 2 .50 cals will shoot 1½ to 2" at 50m when I'm shooting well,I even get my 12g Grundmann shotgun to shoot reasonably well at 25m,so I'm really perplexed as to why this 36 cal is giving me trouble. Help please !

Talk about overkill 70gr of Wano 2fg?? I assume your gun is the Seneca .36. At 25m indoor with an offhand hold I have managed 97/100 (10 out of 13 shots) with my Seneca .36 using 40 gr of Wano 3fg on a standard 25m pistol target. I use .350 Speer or Hornady polished round ball with a 10thou wonderwad. These rifles work efficiently with reduced loads

 

[gvandersluis]

Talk about overkill 70gr of Wano 2fg?? I assume your gun is the Seneca .36. At 25m indoor with an offhand hold I have managed 97/100 (10 out of 13 shots) with my Seneca .36 using 40 gr of Wano 3fg on a standard 25m pistol target. I use .350 Speer or Hornady polished round ball with a 10thou wonderwad. These rifles work efficiently with reduced loads

Most others have given good advise and I concur. Replace the nipple. I have bought replacement nipples from Track of the Wolf, good product from a good supplier. One last thought make sure the spruce on your home cast ball is facing up or down when you load. Good luck, The Seneca is a great little rifle.

 

[Bigpete]

Talk about overkill 70gr of Wano 2fg?? I assume your gun is the Seneca .36. At 25m indoor with an offhand hold I have managed 97/100 (10 out of 13 shots) with my Seneca .36 using 40 gr of Wano 3fg on a standard 25m pistol target. I use .350 Speer or Hornady polished round ball with a 10thou wonderwad. These rifles work efficiently with reduced loads

As I've already mentioned,I don't want to use 70gn,but I tried it to see if it would help,and it did

 

[Bigpete]

Most others have given good advise and I concur. Replace the nipple. I have bought replacement nipples from Track of the Wolf, good product from a good supplier. One last thought make sure the spruce on your home cast ball is facing up or down when you load. Good luck, The Seneca is a great little rifle.

There's barely any sprue to speak of but yes I've been loading them with the mark facing upwards. Strangely enough,I've experimented with the sprue facing all different ways in my 50,and I'll be buggered if I see a difference

 

[Buckskinquin]

Just recently bought a .36 T/C Hawken,and I'm having the devils own trouble getting it to shoot good groups. I've only got access to Wano 2f,and I'm using home cast Lyman .350 round ball. To get it to shoot any good at all I'm having to use 70gn of 2f and a 20 thou patch,but that's blowing the hammer back to half **** and is a real pain in the butt to load after 2 shots. 35gn of 2f just will not shoot at all,we're talking 4 or 5 inch groups at 25m. I don't have ready access to myriads of different powders and projectiles like you guys in the USA do,so I'm adamant to make it work. My next try I'll be using a flask that measures 21gn per load,and trying some 3mm thick leather wads between the powder and ball,as doing that has helped in the past. Does anyone else have one of these rifles,and if so,what load do you use and did you have heaps of trouble like I seem to be ? I'm not new to this,my 2 .50 cals will shoot 1½ to 2" at 50m when I'm shooting well,I even get my 12g Grundmann shotgun to shoot reasonably well at 25m,so I'm really perplexed as to why this 36 cal is giving me trouble. Help please !

Id replace the nipple, if it still blows back, the main spring in the lock. Something seems off. But 2f is going to be dirty in that caliber. Wiping between shotsa must.

 

[Bigpete]

Id replace the nipple, if it still blows back, the main spring in the lock. Something seems off. But 2f is going to be dirty in that caliber. Wiping between shotsa must.

Yes,2f isn't ideal,I know its going to be dirtier than 3f,but its what I've got.
I've already ordered nipples for it,the main spring is stronger than in my Dikar so I really hope it's not that

 

[Bassdog1]

Bigpete I shoot a lot of Seneca rifles and in a 36 My standard load is 30 grains of 3F but I have also shot 2F with very good results. I use a .015 patch lightly lubed with Tracks Mink Oil and a .350 Ball. I am sure once you get that nipple replaced you will get a better group.

 

[William Lincoln]

I think Wano is the name behind Scheutzen-- an excellent powerful
powder from Germany.

 

[roundballman]

I also get good results in my 36 Seneca with 25 to 30 grs 3f powder, 350 round ball, and 013 lubed patch. Senecas need a different nipple than the T/C Hawken so be sure you are ordering nipples for the Seneca

 

[Bigpete]

I also get good results in my 36 Seneca with 25 to 30 grs 3f powder, 350 round ball, and 013 lubed patch. Senecas need a different nipple than the T/C Hawken so be sure you are ordering nipples for the Seneca

Oh great. I've ordered two ¼x28 no.11 nipples for it going by what I found via google. What is the proper thread size then ?

 

[ryoung14]

For the TC 36 Seneca at least, the manual loads are way heavy. Had little luck with mine until I tried going light. FWIW, 20 gr. Pyro P behind a .350 roundball with a .010 patch always worked wonderfully well in my 36 Seneca. 25 gr was good too, but the groups opened up at 30. Even 10 gr worked pretty good. I can't conceive of how bad loads heavier than 30 gr would shoot.

I know you're stuck with 2f Wano; but give light loads a try. Heavy loads may have already wrecked your nipple.

The 36 is a squirrel/small game/fun target gun, not a deerslayer. That's what the 50s are for.

 

[flashpoint]

I shoot a .45 Seneca and use 70 grains of 2F and it's right on. Good luck.