T/C White Mountain carbine for a Newbie

[Bonasa Umbellus]

I just purchased my first muzzle-loader, a T/C White Mountain carbine in .50 cal., at an estate sale today.

I have emailed T/C to see if they can ID the twist rate for the barrel and if they could supply me with an owner's manual.

I'm posting here for recommendations on how to get started. I've shot shotguns and rimfire and centerfire riles since the 1970s, and I am eager to learn about black-powder shooting.

Can anyone recommend a "bible" for black-powder shooting? What other sources of information would you recommend?

Any and all direction most appreciated in advance.

 

[nkbj]

The TC loading manual!
hotoSmile:

 

[azmntman]

You will need some supplies like a powder measure, caps, powder (or substitute like triple 7 or pyrodex), patches, cleaning jag shooting glasses etc. I suggest you read a bit before the trip to the range. Also MAKE sure the gun is not loaded. Put the ramrod in the barrel. should go all the way in and if not could be loaded already. Next I highly recommend you get a copy of Dutch's Black Powder Accuracy (search here or wait a bit and another member will post link). Pretty close to a mini "bible" for us black powder addicts. Cost ya $20.00 and save ya 40 years of learning....must have in my opinion.

WARNING....Black powder is addicting. I'm betting you own at least another rifle and surely a pistol or revolver before next Thanksgiving! Welcome to the forum!

 

[bpd303]

Here is the manual for the Hawken. It's basically the same as the White Mountain. https://www.tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/Hawken_Manual.pdf
For the bible the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual is good. http://www.amazon.com/Powder-Handbook-Loading-Manual-Edition/dp/B0000C6I4U

There is a wealth of information here in the articles & links section. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/94/
It's pretty easy to figure out the twist rate. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/239243/

 

[bubba.50]

White Mountain Carbines are fast twist, either 1 in 20 inches or 1 in 38 inches & generally will do better with conical bullets such as T/C maxi-balls, Lee r.e.a.l. bullets, Lyman great plains bullets & similar. luck & have a good'en, bubba.

and welcome aboard :hatsoff: .

 

[Bonasa Umbellus]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, safety first: I found the full-load scribe mark near the end of the ramrod, and it disappeared when I put the rod down the barrel; just the metal tip of the rod was left protruding from the muzzle.

I'll look for a copy of Dutch's BPA, and I'll try to get with some buddies who have experience shooting blackpowder. I picked up the gun cheap enough ($150) that I figure even if I decide it's not for me, I'm not going to lose much at all for learning.

In looking at the gun more closely, it appears the nipple is missing; there is just a threaded hole with a lip around it where the hammer would fall. Is this a significant problem? Are replacement nipples available?

Thanks for your patience with a noob.

 

[bubba.50]

nipple threads are 1/4 inch by 28 threads per inch available at Track of the Wolf & about any other place that sells muzzleloading supplies.

 

[Bonasa Umbellus]

So, I assume BP follows the same rule of thumb as centerfie rifles regarding twist rates: the tighter the twist, the better suited the barrel would be to lighter projectiles at higher velocity; reverse is true for slow-twist: better with heavier a projectile at a lower velocity. How do patched round balls fit into this equation?

 

[bubba.50]

almost the exact opposite when dealin' with muzzleloaders. roundballs generally do best with a twist rate somewhere around 1 in 60 or 70 inches. heavy conicals do best in the faster twists.

this is not to say roundballs won't work in yer gun. you'll just hafta play with it & see what works best.

 

[ohio ramrod]

WARNING! WARNING! Black powder is highly addictive. You will need to buy a fortune worth of accessories and a complete set of period correct clothing. Plus there are so many variables you will never hit anything you are aiming at. It will take you at least twenty years to learn the game. Unless you get Dutch's system. :idunno: :hmm: :idunno:

 

[Grenadier1758]

You will need some supplies like a powder measure, caps, powder (or substitute like triple 7 or pyrodex), patches, cleaning jag shooting glasses etc. I suggest you read a bit before the trip to the range. Also MAKE sure the gun is not loaded. Put the ramrod in the barrel. should go all the way in and if not could be loaded already. Next I highly recommend you get a copy of Dutch's Black Powder Accuracy (search here or wait a bit and another member will post link). Pretty close to a mini "bible" for us black powder addicts. Cost ya $20.00 and save ya 40 years of learning....must have in my opinion.

WARNING....Black powder is addicting. I'm betting you own at least another rifle and surely a pistol or revolver before next Thanksgiving! Welcome to the forum!

Let me add a range rod to the list. The rod furnished with the rifle is good for hunting and limited cleaning. You want to be able to clean all the fouling after shooting your rifle. The cheapest cleaning solution is warm water and a couple drops of dish washing soap.

Welcome

 

[Critter Getter]

Welcome to the forum and the world of smoke! You have already received a bunch of good advise and information here. Now start saving your pennies because my guess is that $150 rifle could have just cost you thousands more in the coming years in additional weapons that you will find all kinds of reasons to make them yours! A bunch of us have started just like you and after 35 years of BP I am now just learning other phases of this fun hobby! Have fun and stay safe!! Greg.

 

[JonnyReb3]

Welcome to the foums Bonasa! I look forward to reading of your future adventures :thumbsup:

My first new frontstuffer was a WMC my mom bought me for Christmas almost 30 years ago. I honestly remember seeing it come out of the box, had the suede sling and came with the plastic T\C keyring they used to send..was a gorgeous rifle and rarely have i felt a gun fit me so well. I absolutely loved it but couldn't hit a thing with it. I had no idea then that it was a fast twist barrel.. sold it eventually and only the little red keychain remains of the whole purchase.

I missed it however, and bought another one about 5 years ago. This one was just as perfect and it had the 1-20 twist barrel. I shot it with every tradition style projectile i could think of and only found limited success with 2 loads..a patched roundball with a very light powder charge (50gr 2f or less) and the Hornady 385gr slug with 75+ grs of 2f, both these loads worked ok but only the big long conical was of sufficient power for me to use for big game. I had issues with the weird "swept wings" rear sight..it either covered to much of my target or otherwise irritated me but i ended up swapping it for a typical flat topped TC sight off another rifle and things got a bit better. I then flat out missed the biggest buck i'd ever seen in the woods about 3 seasons ago and upon resighting the rifle found it was somehow shooting a foot low at 30 yards..i proclaimed myself done with the gun and sold it. Much as i loved the look and feel of the WMC i just never had luck with either of mine and so i wish you much better success than i had.

I would reiterate what Bubba said and try the longer conicals if you are going to big game hunt. They definitely were the best in a hunting load. For general shooting and messing around, the patched round ball may do surprising well for you ..i'd try all normal powder loads as who knows, you may find success but in the end i'll bet low charges work best with the round ball.

Something else i never tried but now ponder, is what 3f powder may have done in the rifle, it too is worth trying i think. My personal experiences arn't meant to dissuade you from getting the best out of your rifle but just what i found, i wish you the very best of luck with yours and again look forward to reading of what you find. J.S.

 

[Bonasa Umbellus]

Many thanks, gentlemen, for all of the patient replies, welcoming wishes, and technical advice. You've given me some great info to get started with, and I appreciate it. Rather than clog up your board with many questions that will very probably be answered in the resources you've recommended, I think I'll spend some time getting up to speed with those and then get back to you just with questions that remain.

Again, many thanks to all of you for your help.

 

[Zonie]

Ask as many questions as you want. That's what were here for.

 

[nkbj]

Recently checked and saw that the Possible Shop has the aluminum bronze 1/4-28 nipples in stock. If you're gonna be hunting with heavies it would be worth while to snag some ahead of time.

 

[Zonie]

I think you meant to say, Ampco bronze.

Ampco has been in the business of making all sorts of special materials and the material these nipples are made from is not what one would think of when they think "bronze".

It is at least twice as hard and tough as common bronzes and it is very resistant to high temperatures and corrosive gasses like black powder produces.

It does contain quite a bit of copper so it has a yellow "bronze" color to it.

I'm not sure it is greatly better than stainless steel but there are many who are sold on it as being the best, short of going to a platinum lined nipple.

 

[Bonasa Umbellus]

I heard back from T/C tech support today. They sent me their generic blackpowder owner's manual and said they do not have on file manuals for the White Mountain carbine. They also told me the White Mountain carbine has a 1:38 twist. They also said a fire destroyed many of their records, so they are unable to give me a date of manufacture for my gun. SN is 8910: anyone have one they know the age of with a comparable SN?

 

[Bonasa Umbellus]

Thanks, Zonie.

One Q: T/C customer support was unable to ID the date of manufacture for my White Mountain carbine because they lost their records in a fire years back.

Do you know whether there's any sort of T/C serial number list anywhere on this board (or elsewhere, for that matter)?

My gun's SN is 8910, and I'm just curious to know roughly when it might have left the factory.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[Zonie]

Sorry. I don't know of any serial number list that is even remotely complete or reliable.

Even the Third Edition Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Values seem a bit vague about the White Mountain Carbine.

On page 217, it lists the gun but in the dates it was made they say, "Mfg. 1989-disc"

I don't know if that means it was first made in 1989 and then discontinued or if it was discontinued in 1989. I think it's the former.

The book says the Last MSR was $350.