T/C White Mountain Carbine

[dave63]

I went to a gun show today, and was reeled in by a TC White Mountain Carbine in .54 cal. Very nice gun, very clean, just a couple of small knicks in the stock. Got it for $140. Not the deal of the century, but I thought it was a fair deal. I was pretty dissapointed when what little I could find about this rifle said that it was a "fast twist" barrel , and only useable with conical bellets. But I've also read that there would be some difference between the .50 and .54 calibers.

I ran a cleaning jag with a couple of patches down the barrel tight enough to follow the rifling. I got 1/4 of a turn with 12 inches of travel. Doesn't that work out to a 1/48 twist rate? I really want to be able to shoot round balls with this thing.

Can anybody tell me anything about this rifle? It isn't listed anywhere in the TC website.

Thanks for any help.

Dave

 

[Rebel]

Dave, if you marked the rod at the muzzle and it only turned 1/4 turn and was 12" from the mark to the muzzle pulling it ut, then yes, that is a 1-48" twist rate.

 

[roundball]

Yes, according to an older TC catalog I have, they were offered in .45/.50/.54 calibers, percussion and flintlock, 21" stepped octagon to round barrels, single hunting trigger, adjustable sights, rubber recoil pad, sling & sling swivels, 6.5lbs, 38" long.

The .50cal had the 1:20" fast twist for conicals;
The .45 & .54cals had the 1:48" standard barrels;

 

[rabjr]

I don't know about the .54 cal but I bought one of the first White Mountains to come into my State when they first came out and it was a .50 cal 1-20 twist. I believe only the first year run or maybe the second too was 1-20 twist, then they switched to a 1-38 twist. Not sure if the .54s were the same as the .50s or not, I would spect so.

Lol never mind, listen to roundball. ::

 

[dave63]

Roundball...Thanks a million. That's exactly what I wanted to hear!! Sounds exactly like what I have here. recoil pad, sling and swivels, stepped barrel, .54 percussion.

I knew somebody could help. Just didn't think it would be this fast.

The twist rate really had me worried. I feel better now. Can't wait to shoot it. With the CVA Bobcat being the only ML I've ever shot, this thing feels like a caddy. Real metal, and the action of the lock feels great.

Thanks again.

Dave

 

[roundball]

FWIW, my TC Hawken .54cal 1:48" barrels are very accurate with roundballs, both when using Pyrodex RS back when I shot percussions only, and now using Goex FFFg in percussions and flintlocks both.
(never tried a .54cal conical as I don't hunt anything that needs something that big and heavy)

I've settled on Hornady (or Speer) .530's and TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches with 50-60grn Goex 3F as range target loads;

For heavier 90grn Goex 3F hunting loads, I add an Oxyoke wonderwad over the powder as a firewall.

My Hawken barrels are 28" compared to that 21" carbine barrel...don't know what effect if any that might have...but it might really make the case to use a faster burning powder like Goex 3F as there's less burn time in the shorter barrel.

So if you find yourself struggling with load development using a 2F type powder, you might try some 3F before pulling out ALL your hair...

::

 

[dave63]

Anybody care to give thier opinion on whether I gota fair deal or got ripped?

Dave

 

[lonewolf5347]

white mountain carbine 50 cal. has a 1 in 38 twist
white mountain carbine 54 cal. has a 1 in 48 twist

 

[roundball]

The TC catalog I have (early 90's) clearly states a 1:20" twist for the .50cal barrel...did thay later make a different twist barrel?

 

[RCL]

Dave, you didn't get ripped, that's a pretty fair price for an American made muzzleloader with a lifetime warranty.
FWIW, my T/C New Englander .54 with 1-48 barrel shoots very well with a Hornady Great Plains Bullet over 100 grains of Goex 2F.

 

[harryo]

The TC catalog I have clearly states a 1:20" twist for the .50cal barrel...did thay later make a different twist barrel?

The newest edition of Sam Fadala's Blackpowder Loading Manual, the Gun Digest version, not Lyman's, shows load data for a .50cal and a .54cal White Mountain Carbine. The specifications for the .50cal show a 1:20 twist and the specifications for the .54cal show a 1:48 twist, just as you mentioned earlier. Of course, as Swamp Rat mentioned, it T/C certainly might have switched the .50cal to 1:38 for later production runs. In any case, it appears that the .54cal was always 1:48 twist.

 

[dave63]

sabinajiles,

Does your book tell what the minimum and maximum powder charge should be?

I sent an e-mail request to TC for a manual, but it came back undeliverable. I really appreciate you guys help.

Dave

 

[rabjr]

I can tell you my White Mountain ser# 5267 is a .50 cal 1-20 twist. The following year after I bought mine, my two cousin's decided to get into black powder and both wanted a gun like mine. We went to the local gun shop to buy them one and to my surprise both those new guns had 1-38 twists.

 

[roundball]

You can call them Mon-Fri at 1-603-332-2333

 

[harryo]

sabinajiles,

Does your book tell what the minimum and maximum powder charge should be?

No it doesn't. Fadala tested 3 projectiles, a 375 grn CVA Deerslayer, a 225 grn CVA bullet/sabot and a T/C 43o grn Maxi Ball. He settled on 100 grns of Goex FFG or Pyrodex RS as his optimum load. Basically, he stated that with the short barrel, the rifle was intended for hunting and for that reason he didn't test lighter loads. He further stated that heavier loads offered no appreciable velocity advantage because of the short barrel. I would imagine this is quite true.

For general target shooting, I would think something around 70 grns FFg, with patched, round balls, would work pretty well. I would also think this rifle might shoot the 300 & 380 grn REAL conicals pretty well.

 

[Rat]

Yeah don't overlook the REAL...(if you do try a slug)I've got a 456 grain REAL shooting "real" good in my 1861. Need the short-starter to start it, but then it goes right down.
Seems to shoot well over various powder charges too...not powder-charge sensitive. Use a wonder wad under it. It's a funny looking bullet but works great.

Rat