Tang bolts

[anika]

For the last month now I have been reading books watching Turpins video and researching a rifle project. To alot of you guys who are genuine builders and gunsmiths this might seem like a stupid question but does the tang bolt really need to run right through the wrist to the trigger plate for strength? It seems that it would weaken the wrist. Modern rifles are not designed that way and the last wooden rifle designed for rigorous use the GARAND wasnt either. By the way the Turpin video makes fitting the breech plug look like a five second chore. odis

 

[Zonie]

IMO, there were some good reasons the makers of the original rifles screwed the barrel tang to the trigger plate.
First, when the gun is handled there are forces trying to pry the breech of the barrel out of the stock. If the screw that keeps the barrel tang in place is just screwed into the wood, over a period of time the wooden threads holding the screw will crush allowing the screw to loosen.
If the screw is screwed into another piece of steel or brass like the trigger plate those threads will not crush from the load so the screw will not loosen.

The wrist is a weak place and although drilling a small hole thru it weakens it a bit more, it is far less damaging than a wood screw screwed directly into the wood.
Also, the steel tang and the steel trigger plate and the thru screw work together to place the wood between them under compression. That adds greatly to the strength of the wood because, lets face it, when wood breaks it does so because the wood fibers are pulled apart. With the steel and screw sandwich holding it together the wood fibers cannot be pulled apart.

This idea was carried to extremes in the Tennessee and Southern rifles as well as the Plains Rifles.
The barrel tang extends clear down to the start of the butts comb and the trigger plate extends an equal distance along the bottom of the wrist.
There are two screws in this assembly. One just behind the breech and one almost back to the butts comb. This puts the wood in the entire wrist into a steel reinforced sandwich.
It was done to prevent breakage to the wrist and it works.
zonie

 

[anika]

Thank you for the info Zonie Just trying to pick the brains of some of you experts I'm even less than a rookie. I'm going to buy a parts set this winter and hopefully it'll end up as good primitive season rifle for here in Minnesota. I'll use the GPR percussion for the regular season. odis

 

[flintlockmdj]

I don't intend to do a "me too" on Zonie but heres my personal experience. I built a Tennessee flint in 1977 with the grain of the wood running crossways of the wrist, not what I wanted but what I had. I put a long tang on it and double bolted it to the triggerguard and after thousands of rounds fired hundreds of shooting matches and more hunting trips than I can remember not a single crack can be seen.

 

Zonie,

What I've seen of original southern mountain rifles is that few of them actually had pass-through tang bolts. Most barrels were attached with wood screws at the tang, and many of the trigger assemblies were held in with either a single screw or just by the guard in front and an undercut inlet in the rear. They did often have long tangs that went back up and onto the comb. However I think this was more showing off their blacksmithing skills than adding much strength. I personally think these guns are more likely to break at the lock bolt than any where else.

Just my 2 cents. Maybe Ken Guy will give his on the tang bolt issue.

Sean

 

[Stophel]

I don't see that adding metal strips to the wrist can strengthen it at all. In fact, it would weaken it, I would say. I can't imagine how the long breechplug tangs could possibly "strengthen" the wood of the wrist. It WILL on the other hand, hold the wood together when it does break.

As was said, the weak point of the stock is the lock area, much more so than the wrist.

 

[retired]

FWIW. Thompson Center used only a wood screw to secure the front of the tang, because of cracking in and around the lock and lock bolt area they have gone to a bolt which passes through the trigger plate and threads into the trigger guard.

 

[Zonie]

Of course it isn't a direct comparison but an example of using a material with a high compressive strength to add tremendous strength and stiffness to a comparatively weak flexible material is the honeycomb composite material that is used for aircraft structures.

By itself, the honeycomb is very flexible and has little strength in any direction but by adding thin sheets of aluminum, steel or carbon fiber to both sides of it it becomes very strong in all directions.

Yes, I realize the surface material in these composites is bonded to the honeycomb everywhere it touches it but IMO, when the thin wrist of a rifle is reinforced with steel on both sides of the wood the strength of the wrist cannot help but be made much stronger. Especially in the vertical direction.

Sean:
Sorry to have included the Southern rifles in with the long tang reinforced Tennessee rifles.
Yes, I know that some Southern Rifles used wood screws thru their barrel tangs. Indeed, one of the "features" of some of the TVM Southern and Poor boys rifles is they use a simple wood screw to hold the barrel tang into the stock just like the real ones.
IMO, it is one of the weaknesses of these TVM rifles.

 

[Birddog6]

For the last month now I have been reading books watching Turpins video

I must applaud you. :bow: :bow: I have tried to watch that video at least 10 times & have never made it past the first 10 min & I am fast asleep.

IMHO the bolted thru tang does nothing except keep the screw from pulling & working loose. The weak area is always the lock area. I don't think it adds any strength to the wrist area.
:wink:

 

[anika]

I'm cheap if I pay that much money for a video I'm going to watch even if it turns out to be a chick flick. I'm not as period correct as many on this site, but I'll probably follow the instructions in the books to the letter. But I will put a sling on it because I have to believe that someone out there must have had the sense to use one. odis