Help needed designing .62 cal percussion rifle

[sheba]

I also have this English sporting rile in 54

 

[pamtnman]

My Renner has Forsyth rifling so it can supposedly use a high powder charge with round ball and not strip the rifling but it can also use a bullet if so desired.I normally use 100grains in it.I normally use a round ball in it

Fascinating. Thanks for telling me. In a "normal" rifled .62 barrel, the every day charge would be around 130 to 160 grains. The barrel in my project here is a 38 inch Colerain gain twist, which starts out slowly and speeds up as the projectile moves up-bore. Gain twist is like Forsyth rifling, a sophisticated approach to black powder challenges back in the 1870s, as British sportsmen moved around the world and hunted previously unknown dangerous game with guns using more conventional systems that sometimes failed and left their users trampled and gored into red puddles. Another black powder bore system I am very familiar with is the Lancaster oval bore, which looks smooth to the eye at first. The egg-shaped rifling spins the projectile with simple, basic centrifugal force, relying much less on cut rifling. It is very accurate and less susceptible to fouling. Is your gun really accurate?

 

[pamtnman]

I also have this English sporting rile in 54

OH YEAH. Fabulous gun there. Has the Alex Henry lock. Is it accurate?

 

[pamtnman]

Sheba, I should mention the Lancaster oval bore requires about 15% less black powder or NFB than traditional cut rifling systems. Forsyth rifling is the same.

 

[Mark Herman]

Pamtnman,
Haven't shot the .72 yet but am figuring it'll take 100-125 grains of FFg to get that bowling ball moving, maybe more. I think the ball weighs in at close to 500+ grains.

 

[pamtnman]

Do you recognize a reproduction facsimile of this butt plate? It is nearly half a heart, with an unusually deep bend and long top point. I have looked at the usual supply outlets (Track, Dixie, Pecatonica, etc) and have been unable to find anything like this. Thanks for any help!

 

[rickpa]

If I may offer some advice? I'd not use that buttplate on a large caliber thumper. I'd use an English style, wide, flat and high or musket style. You don't want a skinny deep curve that fits on your arm but one that fits on your shoulder shotgun style. But that's me. You might be able to handle recoil better. Check out the buttplates on British dangerous game guns.

 

[pamtnman]

If I may offer some advice? I'd not use that buttplate on a large caliber thumper. I'd use an English style, wide, flat and high or musket style. You don't want a skinny deep curve that fits on your arm but one that fits on your shoulder shotgun style. But that's me. You might be able to handle recoil better. Check out the buttplates on British dangerous game guns.

Thank you, Rick, your advice is welcome. You are stating an old truism about these deeply notched butt plates, and I am sure that for those shooters who were punished by their design, they are unpleasant to shoot. Three reasons why I am committed to this particular butt plate: First, it is historically accurate, and this gun is supposed to be historically accurate. So far I have seen three Folsom full-stock Plains rifles with exactly the same stock and this unusual butt plate. Little Bat Garnier was said to be the best shot with his Folsom rifle that anyone had ever seen, and that is saying a lot (he was a Sioux scout for Custer and the only survivor of the Little Big Horn, as well as a scout for Sheridan and other bluecoats, as well as a Sioux warrior and US Army meat hunter). Second, if it worked so well for Garnier, who was about five feet eight inches tall, then it should fit me and work for me, too, especially as I am a lot bigger than Garnier. I expect it to be much less punishing to me than it might be to someone smaller. Plus I have the benefit of what shooting science calls "significant protective girth," which that lean buffalo eater Little Bat did not enjoy. Third, the butt plate looks unique and cool as heck, I like it, it completes the beautiful lines of the rifle, and so it will be on my gun or there will be no Little Bat rifle reproduction at all. And if it does beat the snot out of me, I will call you, admit my mistake, and try to sell you a barely used percussion thumper

 

[oldwood]

Hunted w/ and shot .62 cal. rifles more than most. Pointed butt plates might not be what you want since the business load in a .62 is around 90 gr. ff. It's a great cal. for hunting , but range practice w/ .62 and pointed butt plate could get painful before you become proficient. Charlie

 

[pamtnman]

Hunted w/ and shot .62 cal. rifles more than most. Pointed butt plates might not be what you want since the business load in a .62 is around 90 gr. ff. It's a great cal. for hunting , but range practice w/ .62 and pointed butt plate could get painful before you become proficient. Charlie

Charlie, I do appreciate your guidance. Unfortunately, the historic gun we are copying is what it is, quite "pointy" of butt. Somehow I know this is not PC to write, but it is true. Two other Folsom rifles emerge quickly from internet searches (one sold at Cowan's and the other at Julia's) , and each also has a pretty deep and "pointy" butt plate; one of them is so deep it is almost Scheutzen-like. Like the rifle we are copying, both of these were Indian rifles used on the Great Plains in the 1860s and 1870s. The rifle we are copying was reputed to have been the most accurate gun anyone had ever seen. I am so committed to this particular butt plate design that, having now exhausted all commercially available options, we have decided to have a replica cast. Glad to hear you approve of the .62 caliber. I am excited about using it to hunt.

 

[pamtnman]

Update: the gunmaker had a replica signature pointy butt plate cast. The gun is almost finished. I’m now looking for something that for sure was not on the original rifle: a folding tang peep sight like a Lyman #2 version. An abnormally long tang was milled on the breech plug to accommodate a folding tang sight. Any suggestions?

 

[lonedave]

Just thinking out of the box here, so take it for what it's worth, but could your gunmaker build a sight for you?

 

[appalichian hunter]

Check out the sharps rifle producers, C.Sharps arms may have the site your looking for.

 

[pamtnman]

Lone Dave: Good idea. The gunmaker is already making an unusual rear sight that matches the historic original. I think he’s committed to the gun as a copy of the original and prefers to hand it to me that way.

 

[pamtnman]

Check out the sharps rifle producers, C.Sharps arms may have the site your looking for.

Thank you, I will check their website. The gunmaker pointed out that the grip / wrist drop is only about 7/8”, not nearly as dramatic as the lever guns the Lyman sights were made for. So finding something that actually fits is going to be a hands-on effort.

 

[excess650]

I may have a sight that will work.

 

[pamtnman]

Excess, thank you for the nice note. I really appreciate your help.

 

[pamtnman]

Two years later the project is done, the .62 rifle is complete.

 

[pamtnman]

Typical gun porn, it’s not even in my hands and I’m posting photos the gun builder sent today

 

[pamtnman]

Took two years from start to finish, but the planning took about six months, actually about two years overall.