Tang thickness question

[Crow#21957]

I've got a long tang about 6 in. On this build.
The tang is pretty thick. Would you thin the tang or just remove enough wood to get it in?
I hate removing that much wood. Second do you heat a tang to make it was to bend or just bent it cold? Tang almost 1/4in. thick.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

What style of gun are you making that you need a 6" long tang?

 

[Sam squanch]

I would leave the thickness and inlet it as deep as it needs to go. If you countersink your bolt , with a thinner tang you may lose some strength. I also saw and file that radius cut on the bottom of the plug to square, makes it easier to inlet. But thats what I do, others may say different….

 

[waksupi]

Inlet until the breech is in position. Draw file tang down to wood level. If the inletting is correct, the tang bolts really don't hold that much, no more than the pins in the stock.

 

[54ball]

It will not hurt at all to thin that tang. You will see many SMRs with their tangs rather thin. A thinner tang may also help with making the bend in the wrist. Many SMRs will have their tangs terminating with a arrow, round or teardrop shape. Through this went the tang screw. Most Southern Mountain rifles have the tang secured with wood screws, not through bolts.

 

[Crow#21957]

What style of gun are you making that you need a 6" long tang?

Southern mnt. Mainly because I like the look. Although it would be much easier to cut about 3 in. Off the tang.

 

[Crow#21957]

It's a 36 cal so recoil is no problem. Althoughi have the barrel inlettet snug up to the wood from side to side and top to bottom.I like the looks of a long tang I just hope with my eyes and all I can get it precision fit no gaps. That's another good reason to go short tang. Looks is my only reason for 6 in. It's rounded on the rear and I have drilled and counter sunk a hole for the screw and it is very centered, no offset like more tang on one side of hole. So happy with that. And lock I plate is nice inletted fit.
Would you cut tang off or leave as is?

 

[oldwood]

Tangs can be cold bent once they are installed into the barrel. Cut away all but 1/4" of the plug tang lug to allow the tang to bend closer to the plug and not out near the end of the tang. Put the end of the tang in the loose , not tight vise jaws , and pull the barrel toward you a little at a time until the tang is slightly bent and will inlet fully into the wood. Have bent well over 100 w/o breaking a tang.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Bend it, thin it, do whatever it takes to match the contour of the wood. It's the profile of the stock that's important. There is plenty of metal in the tang to fit the profile you want. Make a pattern of the stock at the wrist and then bend and shape that tang to match. Then go ahead and inlet it.

 

[54ball]

John Bull

Elisha Bull

Charles Russel Bean Jr.

A great article by Robin Hale
http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.hostguardian.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_hALE.pdf

Gotta have the Gamecock Rifle
Wiley Higgins

Gillespie Rifles....

Contemporary "1810" Matthew Gillespie Pointed Tang...rifle
Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
IMG_0438 by Travis Brown, on Flickr

There's lots of SMRs or Tennessee style rifles. Most of the kits are based off the Bean Family of Rifles.
John Bull of Bulls Gap Tn. and later Alabama was linked to the Bean family. The Russels and Beans were linked by family.
If you remember the Davy Crocket series with Fess Parker, Buddy Epson played George Russel. George Russel was a real friend of Crocket, and he did accompany him in scouting missions during the Creek War.

 

[Crow#21957]

Nice thanks for the pics

 

[Col. Batguano]

If the tang / wrist is supposed to start bending right at the barrel terminus, the only way to make that happen is in filing the tang. (If you don't, that's the wrist hump" you hear so much about here.) The tang extension being about 1/4" thick metal is WAY thicker than it needs to be for strength. If you start your filing at the end of the barrel, the tang may wind up being about 1/8" at the tab of the plug, (that's plenty thick) and then thicken as you move toward the butt. You can also shorten the tab of the plug to give yourself more working room for the bend.

Just don't try to cut a slot under the tang in to the tab to help with the bend. You might break off the tang while bending it if you do that! A lesson I learned the hard way!

 

[Crow#21957]

Thanks Col. Batguano
Appreciate that info/help

 

[James Kibler]

For a narrow tang, you need decent thickness to provide enough integrity and strength.

 

[Crow#21957]

The tang is the same width as the flat on barrel. And it is 6 in. Long. I made a template to use while shaping the tang. I will get it as close to that as I can then fit it in the gun and do some file work. I will leave it the thickness it is which is almost 1/4in.
Thanks. James

 

[James Kibler]

If your tang is the width of your barrel flat, I don’t think you need 1/4” thickness. I’d probably taper it out somewhat with the end maybe around 1/8” or less. Typically original tangs taper in thickness. Sometimes quite dramatically.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

If you have 1/8" thats plenty to hold the barrel. Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[Col. Batguano]

The thing with tangs is that a lot of folks (me included) often don't get them bent as far as they need to be bent. Shortening the plug tab can help, but it doesn't fix everything. They're pretty springy when you're bending them cold. And they don't get fully seated until the tang bolt cranks them down. Or you have a space under there that puts stress on the barrel which can affect accuracy.

The way I dealt with getting the tang fully cranked down to establish the profile of the wrist and tang together (after inletting) was to;
1.) use clamps on the barrel and breech area to get it close so I could start leveling the tang and wood
2.) bend it a little more
3.) repeat steps 1 & 2 until satisfied
4.) drill and install tang bolt
5.) Use a flat-headed #8 tang bolt with an extra deep slot to crank it down to final position
6.) do the glass bedding of the tang
7.) file the tang and wood together to get to your final profile. The bolt head will get buggered up some, but this is a temporary and sacrificial bolt anyway. That's why you deepened the slot!
8.) rechamfer the tang bolt countersink as needed

Since you don't drill the tang bolt until the wrist profile is pretty much fully established (so you don't get it too far aft or forward and wind up with one edge of the bolt head proud to the tang) it is a problematic task to do just right. Guys that have done a zillion of them like Mike Brooks or Dave Person know how to deal with it and get the tang bends and inlets perfect, but I'm not that good. I resorted to glass bedding (epoxy putty or epoxy plastic wood will work too) under the tang once the bolt hole was drilled so the bolt wouldn't pull it down under the wood profile of the wrist. Then it was perfectly seated and no amount of pressure on the bolt could pull it down too far.

Also, you'll want to leave a small gap behind the tail of the tang, like .005"-.008" (about a playing card width). Partly this is to leave room for the varnish, but also to make sure the tang doesn't come back under recoil and start a split in the stock. That's less of an issue with a square-backed tang than one that's rounded or comes to a point, but it's still something to think about.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Don't get me involved, I have never made a gun with a long tang.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Don't get me involved, I have never made a gun with a long tang.

Right on. Sounds like an issue waiting to happen.
Larry