Target Shooting

[Erzulis boat]

Those are some very fine rifles indeed.

The flintlock arm was beyond fantastic. :thumbsup:

 

[Runner]

Actually, I have one of the devil's own attacking me on this issue on another website. His stance is that by 1840 coincals were in everyday use in Europe. He also seems to believe that they were in use harvesting bison here before 1840 also. Everything I have ever read would seem to dispute both points. I am pretty much certain the idea that they were in use on the frontier here before 1840 is completely wrong. I thought this gentleman might be able to define a date when they came into common use in Europe.

 

[ResearchPress]

Sabots, by the way, were used as early as 1833 by the French. Credited to a Lieutenant-Colonel Poncharra, who improved an 1825+/- concept created by Captain Gustave Delvigne..... .... ... .. The Poncharra sabot was first used in combat over in Algeria in 1840.

Some additional snippets of info.... Delvigne's rifle was brought to the notice of the French authorities in 1826. Poncharra's later improved rifle was issued to the Chasseurs d'Afrique in 1838. This still however fired a round ball within the sabot. Thouvenin also experimented with a variation of Delvigne's work, using a pillar in the breech onto which to pound the bullet to expand it into rifling.

Delvigne still experimenting in the mid-1830s realised that a hollow based elongated bullet could be made to expand into the rifling without being battered by the ramrod. He patented his bullet in 1841 (I haven't seen this patent though). The Times in 1844 reported some successful comparative trials of Delvigne's bullet against round ball. Minie's advances of Delvigne's priciples saw fruit in the late 1840's.

The earliest shoulder-fired conical bullet mention I could find in my tiny library was an 1824 attempt by Captain John Norton to get the British Government to accept a cylindrical, hollow-based bullet.

Norton (of the 34th Regiment) produced his elongated bullet in 1823, the hollow in which contained the powder charge. The bullets length was about one and three quarter times its diameter. In 1824 he submitted it to the Select Committee on Firearms who appear to have been most conservative in their views, and as you say rejected it on the grounds that:

“a spherical ball was the only shape of projectile adapted for military purposes.”

Benjamin Robbins c.1740 "postulated the advantages of increasing sectional density and reducing air resistance by the use of an egg shaped projectile." See Long Range Shooting: An Historical Perspective. According to Freemantle's 1901 'Book of the Rifle' there is reference as far back as 1413 to elongated shot being used in small cannon, although I'm straying somewhat from shoulder fired arms!

Anyway, back to the original question...

What is the first historical reference to conicals in a match that you know of?

With regards to the use of conical bullets in a match, which implies popular 'adoption', that's a bit difficult from my resources. Target shooting as a popular pastime within the UK did not commence until 1859 with the formation of the Volunteer Movement and the NRA in the same year. By this time the Minie bullet was well established as were the principles developed by Joseph Whitworth in the mid-1850s. Continental Europe has a long tradition of target shooting but I don't know when elongated bullets would have been introduced for competition there.

The driving force would have been military applications I would have thought and most work on refining the principles involved with the elongated bullet seem to have been carried out in the 1840's. This suggests to me a popular adoption of the elongated bullet at a later date.

Chapman writing in his "Instructions to Young Marksmen" in the US in 1848 apparently mentions the egg shaped picket bullet and the improvement attained by the flat base picket but I haven't seen a copy of the book.

David

 

[Egil]

Do you know a rate of twist and caliber of this Fenton rifle? It's one of the most interesting rifle I've ever seen! :shocked2: I love it!

 

[Jarikeen]

Hello David. With the short distance events with the small bore (.451) what sort of loads were they using. I have read somewhere that with conicals, that one would use approx. 30% less powder compare to the round ball hunting load. Do many of your countrymen use patched RB for the short range target events?