Taylor Uberti better than Uberti?

[oncewas]

Well for what it's worth. A Cimarron employee just called me. didn't what to go throught he hassle of using email, (that is a red flag to me but each his own) anyway he stated they do contract with both Uberti and Pietta. To make firearms just for them. So there is that take it for what it's worth. But I am suspect when people wont put their word in writting.

 

[jd945043]

Except they're not doing that. It would make no sense to cherry pick parts for one importer over another. They're all the same.

I suppose that's why there are Lemon laws in many industries??? Why if the quality is all the same

 

[jd945043]

Actually, if I wanted to be "belittling" or "condescending" I'd of said " You obviously have never handled a . . . "

In either case though, I think I got my answer. I was just trying to give you the perspective of someone that tunes these revolvers on a daily basis.

Mike

If a company provides a quality product then your services would not be needed. When I buy a firearm if it seems sketchy at all I pass it over. I only buy quality not a fixer upper

 

[Eterry]

I personally know gun writers who buy some of the best names in the business, then after a while have them sent out for Tweaking.

A gun may seem fine in the few minutes you're standing at the counter, but after a few range sessions you find things your not as happy with. Not a defect by any means, just something you'd like improved.


Things change, like your bow draw length over time, how you shoulder or hold a weapon, the trigger pull, etc.

That's the bread and butter of the gunsmith trade... that, and pulling stuck balls!!

 

[Stantheman86]

Well for what it's worth. A Cimarron employee just called me. didn't what to go throught he hassle of using email, (that is a red flag to me but each his own) anyway he stated they do contract with both Uberti and Pietta. To make firearms just for them. So there is that take it for what it's worth. But I am suspect when people wont put their word in writting.

I honestly don't really believe 100% of what any company or business tells me. It's not like any of these importers are going to tell you "we pay more to make Uberti provide less lemons and because we inspect the guns, they make them better " because that's not going to give customers a warm and fuzzy about the products

It's just Capitalism in general.

When I go to a car dealership I expect to be spun and lied to. It's the same with a lot of retailers of anything. You get "upsold" or "finessed"

 

[45D]

If a company provides a quality product then your services would not be needed. When I buy a firearm if it seems sketchy at all I pass it over. I only buy quality not a fixer upper

Well believe it or not, you couldn't be further from the truth. I'm quite certain there's more folks in this forum that think the same as you.

My work is more oriented towards folks that want a revolver running as close to perfect as possible with longevity and reliability a premium!
I don't do "make it work" / "make it function" stuff. I'm fairly certain that I am the only tuner that converts the Colt and Remington platforms to coil actions as well as a better spring
configuration for the Ruger Old Army / 3-screw platform.
The results being revolvers that just don't break, maintain timing and close tolerances.

All factory SA revolvers can use tuning, even $2500.00+ Freedom Arms, BFR's , Colt, Ruger, and especially the Italian versions we enjoy.

Mike

 

[Flint1]

I know that Uberti is in the title of this thread, but Pietta is being talked about as well, so I will ask this. I bought my first black powder replica in December 1980, which was a Navy Arms Remington New Model Army, called the 1858 Remington at the time, and I later learned it was made by Pietta. I asked the guy selling it if those were good revolvers and he said "it is Navy Arms, the top of the line." I never have been a big handgun shooter and mainly shoot flintlock rifles whenever I can, but over the years I have shot my Remington many times and except for having an occasional cap jam or having the action get difficult to work after 2-3 cylinders of firing (both of which I had read to expect on a Remington before I made the purchase) I have never had any problems with it. It still has 5 of the 6 original nipples, one being replaced when I managed to drop it down the garbage disposal while cleaning at the kitchen sink about 20 years ago. It seems years ago I heard that the quality of the Italian made guns declined. In the experience of those posting here does that seem true to you, that the quality in the '70s and '80s was higher?
I am a Civil War collector and have original Colts I don't shoot, so my shooting experience is confined to that Remington. The first gun I bought was an original Colt 1849 Pocket Model in 1974 when I was 16. About 1 1/2 years ago I bought an original Colt 1862 Police. I knew it was outside of my collecting interests since there were no official government contracts for that model during the War that I have seen, although I am sure some soldiers may have carried them through private purchase. I had checked the serial number before I bought it and knew it was made in 1867, after the War, but I have always liked the looks of that model and bought it. Only a month or two later I ordered from Dixie Gun Works Uberti replicas of the 1862 Police and the 1849 Pocked Model, with a 2 gun display case each and replicas of the powder flasks and the Eley cap boxes to put the originals and its replica together to better see what the original would have looked like when new. I ordered the correct round balls and wonder wads for each also, although I wasn't sure if I would really shoot them, especially the 1849 because I didn't want to risk damaging its cylinder scene. Of course as time has gone by I have thought more about shooting them to see what is was like with each of them. I have not disassembled them or really checked them yet, so I don't know if they have the same problems I have been reading in some of the posts. The two Colts I really wanted to buy just to shoot are the 1st Model Dragoon (it's older than the other two), and the Patterson, but Dixie stopped advertising the Patterson some years ago.
One final question. I see alot of discussion about the arbor on the Colt replicas being too short. Having always shot only the Remington I thought the arbor is what I call the cylinder pin, which is what the barrel wedge on the Colt goes through. Something I read on another topic several days ago caused me to start thinking the arbor may be the part of the cylinder pin in the frame. What exactly is the arbor, the cylinder pin or something else?
Thanks.

 

[45D]

Yessir, the arbor is a main structural piece in the open-top revolver and is what the cylinder rotates on.
Your binding while shooting your Remington is fouling between the "base pin" and cylinder. Heavy synthetic grease will help the revolver run longer.

As far as "old vs. new", the offerings today ( since about 2010) are far better than the previous copies from any manufacturers (except ROAs). In fact, it's safe to say the revolvers today are better (materially, not necessarily in the fitting department) than the originals. The originals are surprisingly soft. I'd definitely not "test" an original the way I test my current production revolvers.
I will say though that there is at least 1 original 1860 Army ( built in '63) that will run as fast, hard and reliably as any of my other "Outlaw Mule" serviced revolvers!

Mike

 

[GYJ]

If a company provides a quality product then your services would not be needed. When I buy a firearm if it seems sketchy at all I pass it over. I only buy quality not a fixer upper

That's just not true. Everything has room for improvement. Even a $3000 Freedom Arms can benefit from a trigger job.

 

[jd945043]

For my $ it all depends on customer service and tolerances, for example which maker has cylinders that are all bored the same or parts that are hardened properly and which retailer will have the parts and service I depend on. Both manufacturers have problems occasionally and looks and finish don.t mean anything if you can't shoot it right out of the box. As far as finish goes, at least with my personal guns, Uberti wins the race but they aren't perfect which makes me wonder how many original Colt's had quality issues, I'm sure they did and how easy was it, back then to get service and repairs! I love this stuff!

That's just not true. Everything has room for improvement. Even a $3000 Freedom Arms can benefit from a trigger job.

Then that's proof it is not top Quality or it would be done properly from the factory. You just proved the point that factories turn out sub standard product. Now I am done because you will not accept a fact that the manufacturer will turn out different products with lower quality.

 

[Stantheman86]

I know that Uberti is in the title of this thread, but Pietta is being talked about as well, so I will ask this. I bought my first black powder replica in December 1980, which was a Navy Arms Remington New Model Army, called the 1858 Remington at the time, and I later learned it was made by Pietta. I asked the guy selling it if those were good revolvers and he said "it is Navy Arms, the top of the line." I never have been a big handgun shooter and mainly shoot flintlock rifles whenever I can, but over the years I have shot my Remington many times and except for having an occasional cap jam or having the action get difficult to work after 2-3 cylinders of firing (both of which I had read to expect on a Remington before I made the purchase) I have never had any problems with it. It still has 5 of the 6 original nipples, one being replaced when I managed to drop it down the garbage disposal while cleaning at the kitchen sink about 20 years ago. It seems years ago I heard that the quality of the Italian made guns declined. In the experience of those posting here does that seem true to you, that the quality in the '70s and '80s was higher?
I am a Civil War collector and have original Colts I don't shoot, so my shooting experience is confined to that Remington. The first gun I bought was an original Colt 1849 Pocket Model in 1974 when I was 16. About 1 1/2 years ago I bought an original Colt 1862 Police. I knew it was outside of my collecting interests since there were no official government contracts for that model during the War that I have seen, although I am sure some soldiers may have carried them through private purchase. I had checked the serial number before I bought it and knew it was made in 1867, after the War, but I have always liked the looks of that model and bought it. Only a month or two later I ordered from Dixie Gun Works Uberti replicas of the 1862 Police and the 1849 Pocked Model, with a 2 gun display case each and replicas of the powder flasks and the Eley cap boxes to put the originals and its replica together to better see what the original would have looked like when new. I ordered the correct round balls and wonder wads for each also, although I wasn't sure if I would really shoot them, especially the 1849 because I didn't want to risk damaging its cylinder scene. Of course as time has gone by I have thought more about shooting them to see what is was like with each of them. I have not disassembled them or really checked them yet, so I don't know if they have the same problems I have been reading in some of the posts. The two Colts I really wanted to buy just to shoot are the 1st Model Dragoon (it's older than the other two), and the Patterson, but Dixie stopped advertising the Patterson some years ago.
One final question. I see alot of discussion about the arbor on the Colt replicas being too short. Having always shot only the Remington I thought the arbor is what I call the cylinder pin, which is what the barrel wedge on the Colt goes through. Something I read on another topic several days ago caused me to start thinking the arbor may be the part of the cylinder pin in the frame. What exactly is the arbor, the cylinder pin or something else?
Thanks.

The Arbor is the large pin the cylinder rides on.

Piettas now have properly fitted arbors

It is debatable how much of a big deal the "short arbor " actually is.

 

[Stantheman86]

The best action job you can do is to take the guns out and actually shoot them

I've had guys tell me to fill my Ruger Vaqueros with toothpaste and work the action while I watch TV no thank you

There are a lot of people who will happily take your money to "improve" your guns. Whether your skills with said guns or actual rounds fired warrant "worked " guns is user dependent. I know a few guys with high end match pistols or rifles that shoot buckshot patterns with them

 

[Jedidiah]

If you are a top end shooter, a serious competitor,someone who shoots for a living etc, then a finely tuned high end firearm can help you do better. I shot Small Bore NRA competiton for years all across the USA. You attained a certain level where you were out shooting your equipment and needed to upgrade to stay competitive. It tooks years and thousands of rounds to get there! I believe that 95% of people will never attain that level of ability etc and spend money on "equipment" hoping it will make them better, the magic bullet! It won't. That being said, many factory produced firearms are built to certain "standards" and fitment that allows manufacturing at a competitive price. For most people it is all you need and if you practice, you will do fine. Others will take that firearm and have it "tuned" or "smithed" to get what they want. It may or may not help depending on their skill level. I recently purchased an "unmentionable" 1911 pistol, that was manufactured in Turkey at very cocmpetitive price. The build is solid, maching is fine, finish is Cerakote, the the trigger registers 3.4 lbs on my digital scale. I shot it and it hits where you aim. It is a solid piece with only a few bells and whistles. Would it do better if it was "tuned"? Perhaps, but I doubt I would do any better! So you can buy one for $400 or you can buy one for $3400. One shoots 3in groups, one will shoot 1.5 in groups. You pay your money and choose. Its not hard, but it also is usually not necessary. Revolvers in particular can beneift from a good "smith" more often than a Semi, IMHO It is just the nature of the beast. There is a differnce between tuning for "bullseye" competion and tuning to make it function properly. Its all about what you want, your skill level and your budget! IMHO Have fun.

 

[mkabe]

Taylor's and Cimarron offer Uberti revolvers that are nicer in fit and finish than others. They cost a bit more but they really are nicer.

Not saying you are wrong but my experience is a bit different. Based on quality alone I have an Armi San Paolo (my least favorite), a Cimarron, a Uberti (which I like more than the Cimarron), and finally a Pietta. The Pietta is the slickest revolver I own but the Uberti is a VERY close second! Again based on quality, smoothness of the action, etc.
Let the flagellation begin.

 

[Jedidiah]

Taylor's and Cimarron offer Uberti revolvers that are nicer in fit and finish than others. They cost a bit more but they really are nicer.

Taylors also offer pistols made by Pietta.

 

[Jedidiah]

If a company provides a quality product then your services would not be needed. When I buy a firearm if it seems sketchy at all I pass it over. I only buy quality not a fixer upper

It is all realtive.

Edited by Moderator.

 

[Billy Boy]

Grade B guns from Midway. Cosmetic finishing definitely reflects "reject " frames , barrels etc. pulled from parts bins

Internals are functional but rough.

It would be a hard sell to convince me Pietta didn't slap these together for MidWay to sell as "budget" guns and they were assembled with parts that were blemished, unfit for places like Taylor's, or with brass frames with manufacturing defects. They are "Factory Seconds " sold at lower cost.

All these guns are not the same. But that's fine. I knew what I was buying and the guns shoot perfectly. These just aren't the ones you show off or display , just choot em

View attachment 205472

All of mine look like seconds - no matter where they came from - after a few months of use in and out of trees, canoes, brush piles, trucks, but they
all run slick and smooth because I do that to them - no matter where they came from.

 

[45D]

It is debatable how much of a big deal the "short arbor " actually is.

No it isn't.

Mike

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

"Debatable" means able to be debated. Debate means discussed logically - both sides get to express their views.

 

[45D]

The best action job you can do is to take the guns out and actually shoot them

That's the fastest way to shave off a cam because of an ill fitted bolt . . . or scar a cylinder because of cracked / broken hand springs or bolt springs.

A brand new revolver is much easier to tune than one that needs a lot of correction to make up for. A lot of my customers have a new revolver shipped to me before they ever see them.

I was sent a new Pietta 1860 to setup for a magazine article many yrs ago. Before I could get started on it the cam was almost nonexistent. I had to remove the rest of it and install a replaceable cam.
Another thing to check for is a loose arbor (from any manufacturer) it's surprising how many are loose from the factory. The easiest way is with the arbor in a vice, wiggle the frame. If there's play, it won't get better.

Mike