Taylor Uberti better than Uberti?

[45D]

Yes, yes, we know, we know...... you make a living at it and you'll make all of our guns perfect if we give you our $$ . Of course the guy who makes his mortgage and boat payments off "fixing" guns has to tell
us how much they need fixing

You only tell us 20 times per day how could we not know .

Before I even hit "uncover ignored content " I already knew exactly what was going to be uncovered but I couldn't help myself all like oh look 45D is starting early today , must be taking a break from perfecting all those inferior Italian guns

You're right!!

I should perfect folks guns for free!!
But I'm not gonna . . .



Mike

 

[Eterry]

Please Don't Feed The Trolls!!!

SERIOUSLY, if you want to debate this further you MUST REMEMBER:

We cannot allow users to be abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll". This does not follow our rules.

THIS IS THE LAST WARNING ON THIS THREAD...

PLAY BALL!

 

[jd945043]

Actually, if I wanted to be "belittling" or "condescending" I'd of said " You obviously have never handled a . . . "

In either case though, I think I got my answer. I was just trying to give you the perspective of someone that tunes these revolvers on a daily basis.

Mike

Your Answer is yes I have and they all have been Pietta. All of the Ubertis I have had didn't click when the hammer was pulled but sounded like grinding and dragging then click. Even after a good stoning they have never been smooth. My Piettas have been Fault free since the first day

 

[John May]

I had (for a short while) the best Uberti replica of a .36 cal 1858 Remington Navy model that I had ever seen, I bought it to use in Competition and it was second-hand but the fit and finish were superb, action was tight, lock-up was spot on, everything about the gun spelt quality except…. I couldn’t hit a barn door from the inside with it! I tried different ball/powder combinations but at 25 metres my best was low 60’s from 13 shots.
Needless to say I didn’t keep it and it couldn’t hold a candle to the first BP revolver I owned back in 1972, a very ‘old to me’ Navy Arms .44 Remington that could hit a tin can 4 times out of 5 at 25 yards. I suppose it’s a case of quality not necessarily a sign of accuracy? Well that’s how it seemed to me anyway?

 

[OldMaineWoodsman]

Ruger Old Army - Quality debate over.

All kidding aside, folks buy a percussion revolver, and they want it to work. Uberti, Pietta, Armi San Marco, Taylor's, Cimarron, etc. - Each has their plus and minus.

It's kind of like buying a bird dog pup. You do your research, look at the breeding and pedigree, look into the sire and dam, and check the reputation of the breeder. All that, and it is still a gamble.

In the end it comes down to the individual makeup and skills and abilities of the pup and the owner.

Best replica percussion revolver that I have ever owned was a Navy Arms .36 caliber 1858 Remington.

I bought it used.

 

[Jedidiah]

I honestly hope rising ammo prices cause more recreational shooters to turn to percussion revolvers......and we see an American company start turning out hand fitted Colt reproductions made from Ordnance steel, not made from regurgitated Italian parts like Colt and USFA tried, and found a balance in between the Ruger Old Army and historically correct reproductions. Kind of like the Vaquero......it looks like a Colt but inside it's more durable

I don't think many of us would turn our noses up at 1860 Armies, 51 Navies , Walkers and Dragoons that look like old Colts but use modern steel , and are properly fitted out of the box.

If they cost $1500-2000 they'd still sell every one they could make.

Even an 1862 Pocket Police NYPD Tribute revolver made from scratch would sell like crazy.

There's a big opening in the market for someone to step into.

I do not agree that there is a waiting market. The average age on this forum is middle to old IMHO, myself included(72). many are retired or close too it, and have some disposable income to use/waste whatever on "toys" firearms being one category. Many youger people starting out etc do not have $1500-$2000 laying around to throw at a "cap n ball" revolver thata has very limited usage. IMHO

 

[jd945043]

It is all realtive.

Edited by Moderator.

Yes sir I will comply

 

[Snooterpup]

I do not agree that there is a waiting market. The average age on this forum is middle to old IMHO, myself included(72). many are retired or close too it, and have some disposable income to use/waste whatever on "toys" firearms being one category. Many youger people starting out etc do not have $1500-$2000 laying around to throw at a "cap n ball" revolver thata has very limited usage. IMHO

I agree about the limited usage of a cap and ball revolver but todays younger folks have no issue with their Prada purse or the newest iPhone every two years. Spending big bucks is always about “wants”, not always needs.

 

[Jedidiah]

I agree about the limited usage of a cap and ball revolver but todays younger folks have no issue with their Prada purse or the newest iPhone every two years. Spending big bucks is always about “wants”, not always needs.

I agree and the fact is they want the phone & purse, not the ML!

 

[Bad Karma]

"Debatable" means able to be debated. Debate means discussed logically - both sides get to express their views.

I keep hearing that the science is settled…

 

[Stantheman86]

I do not agree that there is a waiting market. The average age on this forum is middle to old IMHO, myself included(72). many are retired or close too it, and have some disposable income to use/waste whatever on "toys" firearms being one category. Many youger people starting out etc do not have $1500-$2000 laying around to throw at a "cap n ball" revolver thata has very limited usage. IMHO

I know at least 50 guys that are 21-35 that own $3000+ AR15s . Do not underestimate the disposable income of younger people.

Then there is my age group , the 40-55 guys that are avid shooters, GWOT vets, work in Govt and public safety jobs,.......... We're the ones binge watching Deadwood, Hell on Wheels etc and a lot of us are deep into our careers and make good $$ . A 45 year old guy will absolutely watch Gettysburg with his son and then spend $1500 on an 1860 Army made in America, by a Vet Owned small gun maker. These are the guys who will put a 1911 that cost 2 grand on layaway without even blinking. The problem is not spending on the firearm, it's the spending to feed it.


A box of 9mm is $25-30, .45 ACP is $35+, etc etc. I spent almost $200 on .223 taking my girlfriend out to shoot my 2 AR15s for an hour . You can always call a gun "an investment ", ammo is expendable.

2 days ago I spent an afternoon blowing smoke through 2 cap and ballers, almost 200 rounds fired and it cost me a 1/2 lb of powder, 2 boxes of $10 per box .454 balls, and a couple tins of $12 caps. It's just economics , people want to actually be able to shoot regularly



There is absolutely is a waiting market for Domestic, American made high end reproduction muzzleloaders. Whenever I go to my gun club, 90% of the time it's the 30something guys who want to check out my Parker-Hale Enfield, or pair of Walkers, etc.

A $2000 1860 Army that includes 2 extra fitted cylinders, or an 1858.....that you can "speed reload". That's out of the box ready , made from high grade Ordnance Steel and has some tweaks to mitigate fouling.

All you'd need is a big budget movie featuring percussion revolvers, it doesn't even matter if people know the history. A Mexican War movie that plays out like Saving Private Ryan with big name actors doing cool stuff with Walkers. And that's it, everyone will want one

I'm sure we all remember Enemy at the Gates and the surge of interest for scoped Mosins, or Saving Private Ryan and M1 Garand prices doubled. After every Western like 3:10 to Yuma I'm sure there's a little bump in sales for Uberti Schofields.

Younger people absolutely will blow big bucks on guns. I've blown big bucks on guns , most of us have.

Just because YOU wouldn't spend $2000 for a high end cap and baller doesn't mean 1000s of other people won't

There's a battle over a Pietta Navy shoulder stock on Ebay right now, it will probably go above $500 or more. Someone is willing to spend the $$ on a stock that costs as much as a new Glock. There is a market for cool old guns.

 

[GYJ]

If we're talking about percussion or cartridge conversions built to the same standards as the USFA or Standard Mfg SAA's, count me in.

 

[fireman1]

I know at least 50 guys that are 21-35 that own $3000+ AR15s . Do not underestimate the disposable income of younger people.

Then there is my age group , the 40-55 guys that are avid shooters, GWOT vets, work in Govt and public safety jobs,.......... We're the ones binge watching Deadwood, Hell on Wheels etc and a lot of us are deep into our careers and make good $$ . A 45 year old guy will absolutely watch Gettysburg with his son and then spend $1500 on an 1860 Army made in America, by a Vet Owned small gun maker. These are the guys who will put a 1911 that cost 2 grand on layaway without even blinking. The problem is not spending on the firearm, it's the spending to feed it.


A box of 9mm is $25-30, .45 ACP is $35+, etc etc. I spent almost $200 on .223 taking my girlfriend out to shoot my 2 AR15s for an hour . You can always call a gun "an investment ", ammo is expendable.

2 days ago I spent an afternoon blowing smoke through 2 cap and ballers, almost 200 rounds fired and it cost me a 1/2 lb of powder, 2 boxes of $10 per box .454 balls, and a couple tins of $12 caps. It's just economics , people want to actually be able to shoot regularly



There is absolutely is a waiting market for Domestic, American made high end reproduction muzzleloaders. Whenever I go to my gun club, 90% of the time it's the 30something guys who want to check out my Parker-Hale Enfield, or pair of Walkers, etc.

A $2000 1860 Army that includes 2 extra fitted cylinders, or an 1858.....that you can "speed reload". That's out of the box ready , made from high grade Ordnance Steel and has some tweaks to mitigate fouling.

All you'd need is a big budget movie featuring percussion revolvers, it doesn't even matter if people know the history. A Mexican War movie that plays out like Saving Private Ryan with big name actors doing cool stuff with Walkers. And that's it, everyone will want one

I'm sure we all remember Enemy at the Gates and the surge of interest for scoped Mosins, or Saving Private Ryan and M1 Garand prices doubled. After every Western like 3:10 to Yuma I'm sure there's a little bump in sales for Uberti Schofields.

Younger people absolutely will blow big bucks on guns. I've blown big bucks on guns , most of us have.

Just because YOU wouldn't spend $2000 for a high end cap and baller doesn't mean 1000s of other people won't

There's a battle over a Pietta Navy shoulder stock on Ebay right now, it will probably go above $500 or more. Someone is willing to spend the $$ on a stock that costs as much as a new Glock. There is a market for cool old guns.

This is so true. Look at the prices of a bog standard MN 91/30 refurb. the were bringing $500 for a while because lots of young guys played COD or some other first person shooter game with WW2 guns. Recently at my LGS I watched a young kid do a transfer on a Swiss K31 and an Italian M38 w/folding bayonet. The pair was well over 2K. Neither rifle nor bayonet were mint condition. Both were typical of what you can find at a gun show.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Ruger Old Army - Quality debate over.

All kidding aside, folks buy a percussion revolver, and they want it to work. Uberti, Pietta, Armi San Marco, Taylor's, Cimarron, etc. - Each has their plus and minus.

It's kind of like buying a bird dog pup. You do your research, look at the breeding and pedigree, look into the sire and dam, and check the reputation of the breeder. All that, and it is still a gamble.

In the end it comes down to the individual makeup and skills and abilities of the pup and the owner.

Best replica percussion revolver that I have ever owned was a Navy Arms .36 caliber 1858 Remington.

I bought it used.

THIS^^^.

From reading a number of the threads on this site regarding buying from Midway (either Uberti or Pietta) vs buying from Taylor's, Cimarron, or DGW, I have come away with this little nugget: extra money will get you a seller that will likely inspect the weapon before shipment and get you better support after the sale (especially for returning/replacing a defective weapon). Other than that, you are getting the same weapon as shipped from the factory (although there may be an increased chance of finding a defect on a purchase from Midway). I seriously doubt that any of these sellers have QC inspectors embedded at the factory (onsite inspectors aren't cheap, so you better have the volume and margins to pay the cost). From my own very limited personal experience, my Pietta 1860 from Midway had a very small burr on the loading plunger. Other than that, the fit and finish was very good (no defects visible to the naked eye) and there were no discernible mechanical issues.

If someone thinks these companies are manufacturing different quality versions of the same pistol, then they have never seen a production machine shop in operation. None of these companies have the volume to justify it. Having spent decades selling CNC equipment to manufacturers - from small mom & pop shops to automotive, aerospace, and in-between, you get an understanding of their operations and production requirements to meet their customer needs. Producing identical parts is the one and only goal. It's the same everywhere - setup time, labor, and out of spec parts are big cost factors. It's not just QC for meeting buyer part specifications, it's QC feedback for machine programming, part fixturing/setup, and operator training. Programming a machine to make a lower quality part is a real production killer - in fact it's nuts. Even having the QC dept sort parts to "A" parts, "A-" parts, "B+ parts", etc., is a production killer. What we don't know is the capability of the CNC machines being used. That some sellers feel the need to do their own QC on what the manufacturers ships them is a good indicator.

Lastly, CNC machines that will produce and QC each and every part to under 0.001" (with closed loop feedback for process adjustment) have been around for years. If you have the right equipment (and operator training), you can in fact produce duplicate CNC parts that are better than what the finest craftsmen can make. But... you have to justify the equipment cost. If "close enough" meets your market requirements then it's going to be hard to spend the extra money. So, in our hobby we pay the price for the ticket and see how the ride turns out, and we sometimes have to do repairs for defects that the factory missed.

 

[bley49]

You really can't read too much into singular examples. The 1862 Pocket Police I just got from Midway two weeks ago is one of the nicest I've seen.

Cimarron can't reject guns that get sent to other importers. They already have Cimarron's import marks on them. They're all the same. Think about it from a manufacturing standpoint. Does it make sense to have varying tiers of quality in the same exact product? Or does it make more sense to make them all the same?

The only true difference is that some importers order certain models, configurations or chamberings that others do not.

I'll say one thing, that Cimarron's customer service is excellent. I bought a rifle and the tang sight was missing the eyepiece. They immediately sent me a complete sight.

 

[Bad Karma]

I know at least 50 guys that are 21-35 that own $3000+ AR15s . Do not underestimate the disposable income of younger people.

Then there is my age group , the 40-55 guys that are avid shooters, GWOT vets, work in Govt and public safety jobs,.......... We're the ones binge watching Deadwood, Hell on Wheels etc and a lot of us are deep into our careers and make good $$ . A 45 year old guy will absolutely watch Gettysburg with his son and then spend $1500 on an 1860 Army made in America, by a Vet Owned small gun maker. These are the guys who will put a 1911 that cost 2 grand on layaway without even blinking. The problem is not spending on the firearm, it's the spending to feed it.


A box of 9mm is $25-30, .45 ACP is $35+, etc etc. I spent almost $200 on .223 taking my girlfriend out to shoot my 2 AR15s for an hour . You can always call a gun "an investment ", ammo is expendable.

2 days ago I spent an afternoon blowing smoke through 2 cap and ballers, almost 200 rounds fired and it cost me a 1/2 lb of powder, 2 boxes of $10 per box .454 balls, and a couple tins of $12 caps. It's just economics , people want to actually be able to shoot regularly



There is absolutely is a waiting market for Domestic, American made high end reproduction muzzleloaders. Whenever I go to my gun club, 90% of the time it's the 30something guys who want to check out my Parker-Hale Enfield, or pair of Walkers, etc.

A $2000 1860 Army that includes 2 extra fitted cylinders, or an 1858.....that you can "speed reload". That's out of the box ready , made from high grade Ordnance Steel and has some tweaks to mitigate fouling.

All you'd need is a big budget movie featuring percussion revolvers, it doesn't even matter if people know the history. A Mexican War movie that plays out like Saving Private Ryan with big name actors doing cool stuff with Walkers. And that's it, everyone will want one

I'm sure we all remember Enemy at the Gates and the surge of interest for scoped Mosins, or Saving Private Ryan and M1 Garand prices doubled. After every Western like 3:10 to Yuma I'm sure there's a little bump in sales for Uberti Schofields.

Younger people absolutely will blow big bucks on guns. I've blown big bucks on guns , most of us have.

Just because YOU wouldn't spend $2000 for a high end cap and baller doesn't mean 1000s of other people won't

There's a battle over a Pietta Navy shoulder stock on Ebay right now, it will probably go above $500 or more. Someone is willing to spend the $$ on a stock that costs as much as a new Glock. There is a market for cool old guns.

IMPROVE THE 1858!!! Somebody please! I still have a couple of the Shooters Model Remingtons made by Pietta and they are wonderfully accurate and reliable to a fault. The faults are, the grip is apparently designed for much smaller mitts than mine, (I know, pinky under the butt, works fine if you don’t have size xxl or xxxl gloves and size 14 fingers) even copying the 1875/1890 Remington grips would suffice while keeping it somewhat HC… Second, for pity sake, install a bushing per the Colt SAA and other blackpowder revolvers. Some of us use revolvers in the field, far from a bench full of, wiper fluids, ointments, greases and salves. We want to load and shoot without having to spit on our guns.
(I wonder if Henry, the lever gun people, would be interested in such a project?)

 

[45D]

Mike

 

[Stantheman86]

If we're talking about percussion or cartridge conversions built to the same standards as the USFA or Standard Mfg SAA's, count me in.

I just wish companies like USFA wouldn't tease us with a high end Colt clone still made from Uberti parts

 

[bley49]

Honestly it's very common.....even for dumb stuff like the Fruit of the Loom hoodie sweatshirt I bought at a Dollar General vs one I bought at a store like Target .

Both newer, the DG one is flimsier and not made as well. But it was probably cheaper

People are like "manufacturers won't put their brand name on a 2nd line of junk products " oh yes they will

Also, Taurus was at one time owned by S&W and was to be the 'budget " line of S&W. But it never came about . Taurus basically owns the fact that they make the "okayest" guns for the cheapest price. And it will probably work 75% of the time, 100% of the time .

The 2 newest Piettas I bought sold this fact to me, with the Italian gun makers. No way would anyone accept these for $350+ or would a seller with a "rep" with the CAS crowd even touch these. But Midway probably sells lots of the "good enuff " brassers plus guys like me that use them as range blasters gobble them up. I'm not getting my Ubertis possibly wet in the rain , but I'm bored and need some entertainment on my day off......so it's the Pietta 2nd Quality range blasters time to shine

Consumer Reports did a study that proved that clothes made for factory outlets were lower quality products. Any parallels, you think?

 

[Stantheman86]

IMPROVE THE 1858!!! Somebody please! I still have a couple of the Shooters Model Remingtons made by Pietta and they are wonderfully accurate and reliable to a fault. The faults are, the grip is apparently designed for much smaller mitts than mine, (I know, pinky under the butt, works fine if you don’t have size xxl or xxxl gloves and size 14 fingers) even copying the 1875/1890 Remington grips would suffice while keeping it somewhat HC… Second, for pity sake, install a bushing per the Colt SAA and other blackpowder revolvers. Some of us use revolvers in the field, far from a bench full of, wiper fluids, ointments, greases and salves. We want to load and shoot without having to spit on our guns.
(I wonder if Henry, the lever gun people, would be interested in such a project?)

Santa Barbara kinda tried, with the 1858's made from the same steel as the weapons they made for the Spanish army.

Also I recall when Remington claimed to be "reviving " the 1858 and someone on this forum claims to own a Remington branded 1858 but it's almost certainly a label slapped Uberti

The Old Army looks too modern, it doesn't satisfy the "history nerds" like me and a lot of other people. A tweaked 1858 with a bushing like the Rogers and Spencer or SAA, made from Ordnance steel. Give it a loading lever and plunger that reaches deeper into the chamber for the "powder frugal"

The Kaido conical and others that have lube grooves already exist, and the people who think "blackpowder is too messy" can use 777 or other "cleaner" powders because a good portion of the market for these would also be people who want to shoot big bore revolvers without paying high ammo prices.

I already have coworkers asking me how much "ammo" costs for those "old civil war guns you put on Facebook " so even people who don't care about history get tired of .22 and want to shoot at the range without a $200 ammo bill