TC .50 Caliber Hawken, Renegade and New Englander 1:48 shooters..........

[ETipp]

I purchased my New Englander back in about 2003. I was hoping it would shoot round balls well. After trying a few different things, patch thickness, .490 and .495 RB, and varying the powder charge, I finally gave up and went back to shooting Maxi Balls. It shoots them fairly well. Have not pursued the RB thing since.

Well, now that there is more information out there on forums from others, I am hoping someone out there obtains good accuracy out of one of those ML with patch and RB. If you or anyone you know have done so, please speak up and list what recipe you are having good results with.

I really want to go back to shooting RB, but dang if I was able to find the right recipe. Also, to note, I had two different Renegades way back when. The .54 caliber shot RB very well. The .50 would not.

Also, I am looking for good accuracy at 50 yards out to 100 yards +, not just at 25 yards.

 

[chorizo]

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/new-englander.152048/page-2#post-2219177

 

[Grimord]

I have a 50 cal. T/C High Plains Sporter that I shoot PRB out of. The best groups I get is using a .490 ball with a .015 mink oil lubed patch over 55 grains of 2 F powder. Groups are touching at 30 yards and open up to 1.5" at 60 yards. My 50 cal. Renegade flint lock shoots best with 60 grains of 3f with a .490 ball and .015 mink oil lubed patch. When I used higher powder charges in both guns, groups really opened up.

 

[TDM]

My .50 Renegade likes up to 70gr 2F, .490 RB, and a .020 patch. Lubed with Mink Oil or beeswax/crisco. Agree with @Grimord that the groups open up quickly with heavier charges.

 

[ETipp]

I have a 50 cal. T/C High Plains Sporter that I shoot PRB out of. The best groups I get is using a .490 ball with a .015 mink oil lubed patch over 55 grains of 2 F powder. Groups are touching at 30 yards and open up to 1.5" at 60 yards. My 50 cal. Renegade flint lock shoots best with 60 grains of 3f with a .490 ball and .015 mink oil lubed patch. When I used higher powder charges in both guns, groups really opened up.

Well that's a start in the right direction for me for sure. I appreciate the information.

 

[ETipp]

My .50 Renegade likes up to 70gr 2F, .490 RB, and a .020 patch. Lubed with Mink Oil or beeswax/crisco. Agree with @Grimord that the groups open up quickly with heavier charges.

I'm wondering if a tighter fitting patch/ball combination might be the trick then. Its been so long now since I messed with the RB thing out of this ML that I really do not remember what all the different loads and patch thickness were. Best of my memory I tried .18 patches with .490 RB.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

In my .50 caliber Hawken I use a .495 roundball, .015 patch lubed with spit and 50 grains GOEX fffg, 70 grains at 100 yards. I won a lot of matches with this rifle, shoots very well.

 

[Stub]

I have a TC Hawken that I shoot in competition. I vary the powder charge depending on the distance to be shot. ,.490 ball, .015 patch, beeswax\ Crisco lube, 60- 85 grains powder.

 

[ETipp]

In my .50 caliber Hawken I use a .495 roundball, .015 patch lubed with spit and 50 grains GOEX fffg, 70 grains at 100 yards. I won a lot of matches with this rifle, shoots very well.

So its sounding like less powder charge may be conductive. What is the average size groups you were getting at 100 yards?

 

[ETipp]

I have a TC Hawken that I shoot in competition. I vary the powder charge depending on the distance to be shot. ,.490 ball, .015 patch, beeswax\ Crisco lube, 60- 85 grains powder.

Pretty sure I tried something pretty close to what you shoot. Might have to try it again.

 

[GriscomRun]

The issue might be that the grooves are too shallow. I tried different things like you too. I could not load a 490 easily - had to use a small mallet to get things started. Never did get a decent grouping. So I sent id out to have the rifling reworked. That work did not take long. Haven't taken it out to try yet due to health issues.

 

[ETipp]

The issue might be that the grooves are too shallow. I tried different things like you too. I could not load a 490 easily - had to use a small mallet to get things started. Never did get a decent grouping. So I sent id out to have the rifling reworked. That work did not take long. Haven't taken it out to try yet due to health issues.

Understood. I am sorry to hear about your health issues. I hope your ML is more accurate for you with RB after you had the work done on it. Please post up your results whenever you are able to do so.

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

I have a modified New Englander stock with a Greyhawk's hardware... including a .50 caliber barrel. This gun, my "Yellow Bird Gun", will also accept New Englander barrels, but the barrels are all cut to 9" (.54 New Englander) and 12" (Greyhawk .50 and New Englander 12 Gauge). When I shoot round balls, I use a thin LINEN patch from an old dress shirt. I generally use a powder charge of 30 - 50 grains or so, depending upon my distance to target.

I can usually hit an empty milk jug at fifty yards, but more often shoot at thirty yards. I know this is not the ranges you were looking for, but I'm doing it with nine and twelve inch barrels remember. When I shoot conicals or unmentionables, I increase the powder charge to 70 grains... 77 grains if I am using Triple 7 because I use a seven grain ignition charge of actual black powder. No, I am not really a precision shooter. My eyes are not as clear as they used to be, for one thing.

My suggestion is to use a lighter charge weight with your round ball loads in those guns... and a thinner patch than usually specified. Mine are .007" with a .490 round ball in a .50 caliber barrel. In my experience, this will give you the same point of aim at most ranges out to 50 yards as a conical using a heavier powder charge. The ball is lighter, remember.

I would also say to stick with actual black powder if you can get it.

Now, no two guns shoot the same, so your mileage may vary.

 

[GriscomRun]

Understood. I am sorry to hear about your health issues. I hope your ML is more accurate for you with RB after you had the work done on it. Please post up your results whenever you are able to do so.

I certainly will post the results. The barrel was sent to Bobby Hoyt for rework. My issue as I explain to him has ungodly hard loading. Just hate using a mallet to start the ball - 490 with a 15 patch. He suggested changing to radius grooves. Also, explained that those T/C grooves are too shallow for PRB.
I'll keep you posted.

 

[ETipp]

I certainly will post the results. The barrel was sent to Bobby Hoyt for rework. My issue as I explain to him has ungodly hard loading. Just hate using a mallet to start the ball - 490 with a 15 patch. He suggested changing to radius grooves. Also, explained that those T/C grooves are too shallow for PRB.
I'll keep you posted.

That sounds about right.

Thanks.

 

[Ditt44]

My Renegade .50 flint, 1991, likes round balls (.490/.010 patch) and 75 grains of 2F. It dislikes, rather aggressively, anything pointed or elongated. PA conicals, Maxi-ball, Maxi-hunter, and jacketed stuff have all been refused like an angry two-year being being told 'No'. My percussion .50 and .54 both tolerate non-round balls more but still shoot the balls best. I have a newer-old .54 flint barrel with very little use when I got it and I've barely shot 25 rounds thru it. She likes round balls pretty well so far and I'm not going to force anything else until I get it settled in. I bought both .50 and .54 Maxi's from an online source and not one of them fits snug enough or even threatens to snug up in my four barrels. I just may be selling them vs trying to better my round ball setups.

 

[Bert621]

My .54 Renegade does a good job with rb's, if they're .526 diameter. I use a .15 or .18 thousands patch

 

[Urban Coyote]

I've found that .490 and .010 patch combo, as recommended by T/C, works pretty darn good. In guessing the relatively shallow rifling doesn't care for thick patches but I'm sure I'm going to hear about it here.

 

[ETipp]

I've found that .490 and .010 patch combo, as recommended by T/C, works pretty darn good. In guessing the relatively shallow rifling doesn't care for thick patches but I'm sure I'm going to hear about it here.

You have established what your particular ML likes or does not like. That's the main thing to keep in mind. I wouldn't worry about what some others may contend. All ML are not created equal, not even the same make and model.

 

[Ditt44]

I've found that .490 and .010 patch combo, as recommended by T/C, works pretty darn good. In guessing the relatively shallow rifling doesn't care for thick patches but I'm sure I'm going to hear about it here.

I would agree based on my four barrels. I have tried 15s, 18s and 20s and they just don't load easy nor shoot as well. Every barrel is unique and I would guess that over 100s/1000s of shots, that preference for a 10 may turn into a 12 or 15. If I were telling someone new to the game what combo to start with in a TC, especially a Renegade, I would say a .010 and go from there. Now the one exception was a .54 percussion barrel I got on a GB rifle, great wood but rumble strips for a bore. That one liked 15s and would tolerate an 18 but not as well. Just shipped that barrel off to a fellow PA user here for him to have re-bored.