TC Firestorm flintlock

[nkbj]

Thanks guys. That was fun.

 

[tg]

"And Claude sets the parameters for what can and cannot be discussed here, not individual members.'

Sometimes folks may tap Claude on the shoulder to see if he is napping when something like this turns up. :hmm:

 

[jethro224]

In my opinion the Firestorm is nothing but a flintlock rifle which was designed specifically to appeal to the modern hunter who has had it pounded into his head by the media that real traditional muzzleloaders are unreliable.
If the Firestorm is what it takes to get a few people started in the traditional direction, if only at the very edge of the map, that is a good thing.
Would I buy one? No!

 

[mtmshieldshotmail.com]

I have one and was surprised that the pellets ignited quickly.

This must be a relative term, “quickly”? Admitted, I have never shot the pellets in mine but Pyrodex, RS or P, grains are noticeably slower to go boom than black powder in my Firestorm. Again the fact you must use real black powder for prime negates any advantage for it to be able to handle subs. Doesn't it? Since you have to go to the trouble to obtain the real stuff anyway why not just use it. I have used the “starter” load of a few grains of 4f in before the Pyrodex and, yes, that does make if much faster, almost acceptable. But than again you need real black powder to get it going, so here we are.
The Firestorm is scary fast with a 4f prime and 3f GOEX charge. :shocked2:

The "flintlock" firearm discussed was DESIGNED to shoot Pyrodex pellets. What's been missed in the discussion is the fact that Pyrodex pellets have a thin layer of REAL BLACK Powder on the base (which is exposed to the heat of the prime upon firing). The thin layer of black is required on the pellets because the Pyrodex is compressed to the point it would otherwise not ignite, even when exposed to a shotgun primer-equipped unmentionable. Loose Pyrodex WILL be slower in the Firestorm, unless you do a duplex load and drop a little black down the bore first (but you could do that with a traditional design, too). :v

Regards,
Mike

 

[ebiggs1]

I have used the “starter” load of a few grains of 4f in before the Pyrodex and, yes, that does make if much faster, almost acceptable. But than again you need real black powder to get it going, so here we are.

Isn't this what I already explained? :idunno:

(but you could do that with a traditional design, too).

The Firestorm is in no way similar to a traditional breech design, so this is not possible to compare.
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. :idunno:

 

[ebiggs1]

As I have often said before and still abide by, “Everyone who shoots a flintlock is HC/PC Traditional.” It is only a matter if degree. Even TG fits in this category. I guess it's easy and feels good to point fingers at other folks and put one's self on a pedestal. :bow:

 

[Amikee]

Hello

Nobody is pointing fingers nobody. Abolutely not trying to offend anybody who owns or will own or is planning to own a Firestorm. Just some friendly discussion on "how much traditional is traditional?". I agree with people here and never question anybodies' opinions. I agree with saying that " if it is what it takes to get ppl to shoot BP....." and it's a matter of freedom of choice....but can't necessarily agree and would feel really bad if on the right side I saw someone in 1700s clothes, who work his ass up on primitive skills, loads, gear , etc and on the opposite side a dude wearing jeans and having firestorm in his hand who shot it maybe few times and still call himself a traditional hunter. Of course everybody has a choice and money limits, preferences, etc so there is no point in arguing about it. Glad to hear so many interesting comments. Maybe we should close this topic before someone will feel offended unintentionally?

 

[mtmshieldshotmail.com]

I have used the “starter” load of a few grains of 4f in before the Pyrodex and, yes, that does make if much faster, almost acceptable. But than again you need real black powder to get it going, so here we are.

Isn't this what I already explained? :idunno:

(but you could do that with a traditional design, too).

The Firestorm is in no way similar to a traditional breech design, so this is not possible to compare.
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. :idunno:

MY post was to answer a couple of posters who found it amazing that a firestorm was faster with pellets than loose Pyrodex

-The Pellets have a VERY thin layer of BP at the base. Firestorm's unique breech design allows fire from prime to reach that base. That's why it's very fast: Black powder prime setting off Black Powder Base of pellet

-If you load Loose Pyrodex only, you're lacking the BP base that the pellet has. It will be slower; maybe even not light off occasionally. Unless of course, you duplex load with a little BP down the bore first.

-If you loaded a pellet in a traditional design, the touch hole would face the compressed Pyrodex portion of the pellet, not the BP layer at the base (we all know this; guess I could've worded my other post a little clearer). Again, you could overcome this by dropping enough BP down the bore such that it reaches the touch hole.

Either way, it's not something I'M interested in. I just stick with traditional ML'rs and Black Powder. No worries.

:v

Regards,
Mike

 

[jethro224]

“Everyone who shoots a flintlock is HC/PC Traditional.”

I have to disagree with that statement Ernie.
While there may be different degrees of traditional, there can be only one degree of HC or PC.

PC; short for Period Correct. In other words something must be correct for the period of time. It had to have been available then to be PC.

HC; short for Historically Correct. Not only must something be correct for a period of time, but also the place. It must have been present then and there to be HC.

While the Firestorm may be "traditional", barely, in some sense of the word, or to some "degree" if you will, it is in no way HC or PC. :2

 

[Amikee]

Amen :bow:

 

[redwing]

TC fire arms are the choice of the Big Box stores. The Firestorm is a vision of TC and Big Box marketing to the Urban unskilled black powder shooters. Fail safe marketing. Don't worry with powder just take a couple of these pills and drop them behind a plastic wrapped modern handgun slug. And if you forget the pills don't worry just open the barrel like a can of beer and load the damn thing. Ahh! will modern marketing replace skill and knowledge? TC and Walmart is betting on it.

 

[roundball]

"And Claude sets the parameters for what can and cannot be discussed here, not individual members.'

Sometimes folks may tap Claude on the shoulder to see if he is napping when something like this turns up. :hmm:

:rotf:
I don't think Claude is sitting around waiting for your guidance on how to run the MLF...apparently you missed his recent comment:

"..."If you don't like it, stay out of it"..."

 

[ebiggs1]

Oh, I understand your position and I understand what the definition of HC/PC is. But even HC/PC has to start somewhere and with guidelines. How much is acceptable and not acceptable. And example is, a historical group here runs and old farmstead. Everything is supposed to be early 1800's. A friend of my wife got interested and got the required outfit and joined the group. Along the way she had bought a lace up corset to wear on site. Someone found out it had modern thread used for sewing it together. They told her she had to discard it and get a more HC/PC corset. She refused and quit the group. Now no one could see the corset when she wore it much less the thread that was used to sow it. But rules are rules and someone decided exactly what they would be. This lady is HC/PC but just not to the degree, the level, of that historical group.
The Firestorm is not strictly HC/PC but neither is my TC Hawken. In fact I would venture a guess quite a large number of the flintlocks owned by folks on this board are not 100% HC/PC either! :hmm:
Even the one's of you that are “experts” on the subject can not agree on many points of each gun. So there you are, just what every bodies level of HC/PC or traditional correctness is in the eye of the beholder. :idunno:

 

[tg]

I did not say I was the one tapping him on the shoulder, oh keeper of the non traditional gate :wink: ( note the icon expressing humor it is often not noticed when humor is applied to some threads, and to save you the time I know that not all see humor in the same light..)

 

[tg]

"“Everyone who shoots a flintlock is HC/PC Traditional.”

Yeah Jethro that staement is a real stretch and shows a complete lack understanding of the accepted standards (by majority) of the sport not HC/PC and a vote would likley put it out of the "traditional" league also, nothing wrong with it but it would fit much closer in a venue that catered to those guns of which we do not talk about even though there were guns like them in the 18th century, some of them are closer to traditional than some of the ones we can talk about, just talking in realities not any kind of "rules"

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I rest my case that photo should be removed, along with those who use those guns

:rotf: :rotf: :slap:

 

[jethro224]

No, HC and PC start and end in the time and place which they are CORRECT for. Period.

There are many different groups who portray different periods and each has it's own guidelines as to how close to correct is acceptable for their group. Some are more correct than others. If someone wants to play with a group they must adhere to that groups set of rules.

I attempt to portray a hunter type from the 1770's period. No, my gear is not 100% HC. Therefore I do not attempt to join groups where my machine-sewn clothing or other gear would not meet their guidelines. Instead I play with those who are at my level of attempting to portray my chosen time frame. They do not check my thread or my underwear. I would not pass the inspection and I admit it. My fruit of the looms are not HC or PC for the 1770's. No sense arguing about facts.

My flintlocks are not HC. They are not exact copies of any original guns.
They are close enough to PC for my group tho, built in the style of the period, wood stocks, fixed iron sights, a rock for ignition...

I hope your wife's friend finds a group of re-enactors where she will fit in at her level. I also hope she understands the difference between HC/PC and her attempt to portray the early 1800's time frame.

"The Firestorm is not strictly HC/PC"
:rotf:
The Firestorm is not AT ALL HC/PC and wouldn't be accepted at ANY re-enactments that I know of. It would probably be accepted at a "traditional ML shooting group".
Your T/C Hawken isn't HC/PC either, but at least it is closer. It probably would be OK at a lot of rendezvous. Not at others. Depends on the rules for the group.
The group I like to run with best doesn't even accept percussion guns at their shoots much less plastic stocks or glow-in-the-dark sights or Pyro Pellets. If I didn't like their rules I'd hang out with a different group.

 

[Amikee]

Can anyone close this topic? It's starting to become ugly at some lines. Let's talk about weather or women, huh? Nice, smooth, with couple or round balls in decent caliber, huh? :rotf:
Thank you
Jethro- I'm just using your post to reply, not to argue your post :wink:

 

[jethro224]

Topic closed at the request of the original poster.