TC New Englander puzzle

[Bob K]

In my quest to change from Pyrodex RS powder to Goex FF in this rifle I come across a problem with the Goex not encountered before. It’s a little complex but will bullet point my last trip to the range.

I shoot two shots (patch and ball)
Clean barrel with spit patch followed by two dry patches.
Shoot two shots same as before
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot two shots same again
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot one shot Aok
Attempt to shoot second shot and misfire (cap goes bang, ball does not move)
Fire second cap, same, ball does not move.
Removed nipple and cleaned and reinstalled
Fired third cap and same thing
Remove nipple and probe flash hole with wire probe. Probe penetrates barrel ok, reinstalled nipple
Fired fourth cap and sane thing
Pulled bullet and patch, removed powder, everything looked normal.
Fired two caps and able to blow smoke out of the nipple.

I’m totally stumped.

 

[Jaeger]

In my quest to change from Pyrodex RS powder to Goex FF in this rifle I come across a problem with the Goex not encountered before. It’s a little complex but will bullet point my last trip to the range.

I shoot two shots (patch and ball)
Clean barrel with spit patch followed by two dry patches.
Shoot two shots same as before
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot two shots same again
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot one shot Aok
Attempt to shoot second shot and misfire (cap goes bang, ball does not move)
Fire second cap, same, ball does not move.
Removed nipple and cleaned and reinstalled
Fired third cap and same thing
Remove nipple and probe flash hole with wire probe. Probe penetrates barrel ok, reinstalled nipple
Fired fourth cap and sane thing
Pulled bullet and patch, removed powder, everything looked normal.
Fired two caps and able to blow smoke out of the nipple.

I’m totally stumped.

how about: 1 an area of wetness you are not reaching to dry out when finished cleaning , or 2 an intermittently plugged nipple. ?

 

[SDSmlf]

I shoot two shots (patch and ball)
Clean barrel with spit patch followed by two dry patches.
Shoot two shots same as before
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot two shots same again
Clean barrel same as before
Shoot one shot Aok
Attempt to shoot second shot and misfire (cap goes bang, ball does not move)
Fire second cap, same, ball does not move.
Removed nipple and cleaned and reinstalled
Fired third cap and same thing
Remove nipple and probe flash hole with wire probe. Probe penetrates barrel ok, reinstalled nipple
Fired fourth cap and sane thing
Pulled bullet and patch, removed powder, everything looked normal.
Fired two caps and able to blow smoke out of the nipple.

Why are you ‘cleaning’ the bore after two shots?

Sounds like your ‘cleaning’ process between shots is pushing crud or moisture down the barrel and into the fire channel. If you are cleaning to ease loading, try using a wetter patch around your roundball WITHOUT cleaning between shots to change things up.

 

[Bob K]

how about: 1 an area of wetness you are not reaching to dry out when finished cleaning , or 2 an intermittently plugged nipple. ?

I think #1 is out because The first shot after cleaning was fine, and definitely not the nipple, I cleaned it and it still misfired. I think it’s haunted.

 

[Bob K]

Why are you ‘cleaning’ the bore after two shots?

Sounds like your ‘cleaning’ process between shots is pushing crud or moisture down the barrel and into the fire channel. If you are cleaning to ease loading, try using a wetter patch around your roundball WITHOUT cleaning between shots to change things up.

You might be correct, I’m cleaning after two shots because of black powder residue. Typically with Pyrodex I did not clean until after 5 shots. My patches are lightly lubed with crisco, are you suggesting more lube?

 

[SDSmlf]

You might be correct, I’m cleaning after two shots because of black powder residue. Typically with Pyrodex I did not clean until after 5 shots. My patches are lightly lubed with crisco, are you suggesting more lube?

Is the residue causing a loading or accuracy issue? At the range if I am having difficulty loading because of powder residue I have found a wetter patch around the roundball will usually make loading easier. Personally, not a fan of patch lubes like Crisco or Borebutter. Stiff in the cold of winter, runny in the heat of summer. I am suggesting you try a wet moose milk type patch lube to see if solves your issue requiring you to have to clean your bore after two shots. If it doesn’t work or you don’t like it, go back to what you were doing. And I also suggest changing only one thing at a time, or when things improve or get worse you won’t know exactly why.

 

[Phil Coffins]

Water is our friend! It alone is a good patch lube as it softens the fouling. Spit is mostly water and depending on the time of day could include bacon grease, jerky juice or whiskey.

 

[Bob K]

Is the residue causing a loading or accuracy issue? At the range if I am having difficulty loading because of powder residue I have found a wetter patch around the roundball will usually make loading easier. Personally, not a fan of patch lubes like Crisco or Borebutter. Stiff in the cold of winter, runny in the heat of summer. I am suggesting you try a wet moose milk type patch lube to see if solves your issue requiring you to have to clean your bore after two shots. If it doesn’t work or you don’t like it, go back to what you were doing. And I also suggest changing only one thing at a time, or when things improve or get worse you won’t know exactly why.

I’m with you on the one thing at a time. Moose milk I assume you mean Ballistol. I use a 4:1 ration for final cleaning and I’ll try that this coming Wednesday. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Bob K]

Water is our friend! It alone is a good patch lube as it softens the fouling. Spit is mostly water and depending on the time of day could include bacon grease, jerky juice or whiskey.

Or all three!! Depending on the day

 

[ETipp]

Okay, at the risk of not reading all the replies to this thread. And being a New Englander owner/shooter, I will weigh in on this. Please do not take this as condescending because it is not. And I certainly do not claim to know it all, but I do want to share this with you in hopes it helps rectify the issues you have been having.

I have shot my New Englander a fair amount over the years. Fired it quite a bit in the last week or two at the range testing different loads, bullet combinations, powder charges, etc. I have had a total of two misfires from that rifle over the years, both due to not ascertaining the flash hole/channel was clear after cleaning. I have shot black powder almost 100%. However, I did shoot some 777 loose powder a couple weeks ago. As long as I snapped a cap or two after cleaning and ascertaining the channel was clear, it has never failed going off. Not even after running a wet patch down the barrel after every shot, followed up by dry patches, at the range. Oh yeah, almost forgot. I did have a misfire when shooting 777 loose powder and using standard caps. I always shoot magnum caps and snap standard caps. So I got the two mixed up and she didn't fire. So there is that. Installed a magnum cap and she fired just like it should have.

With that said, when I first got the rifle I tried to shoot round balls, which it doesn't play well with. Never had a misfire. And I shot quite a bit of lubed patch and round ball trying to make it happen. What I have found is the shallow goove of the 1:48 twist just doesn't like round balls. Thus I have mostly shot Maxi Balls. Some claim it can be done with RB, but I have not been able to find a way. There is nothing more that I would like than to shoot RB out of my New Englander.

You might be correct, I’m cleaning after two shots because of black powder residue. Typically with Pyrodex I did not clean until after 5 shots. My patches are lightly lubed with crisco, are you suggesting more lube?

And you are smart in doing so. My New Englander needs to have a brush ran down the barrel after two shots at a minimum, especially when shooting conicals. I often will wet a cleaning patch down with TC#13 then follow up with a couple dry patches. Then, as stated, snap a cap or two through it before loading.

Good luck to you.

 

[Bob K]

Okay, at the risk of not reading all the replies to this thread. And being a New Englander owner/shooter, I will weigh in on this. Please do not take this as condescending because it is not. And I certainly do not claim to know it all, but I do want to share this with you in hopes it helps rectify the issues you have been having.

I have shot my New Englander a fair amount over the years. Fired it quite a bit in the last week or two at the range testing different loads, bullet combinations, powder charges, etc. I have had a total of two misfires from that rifle over the years, both due to not ascertaining the flash hole/channel was clear after cleaning. I have shot black powder almost 100%. However, I did shoot some 777 loose powder a couple weeks ago. As long as I snapped a cap or two after cleaning and ascertaining the channel was clear, it has never failed going off. Not even after running a wet patch down the barrel after every shot, followed up by dry patches, at the range. Oh yeah, almost forgot. I did have a misfire when shooting 777 loose powder and using standard caps. I always shoot magnum caps and snap standard caps. So I got the two mixed up and she didn't fire. So there is that. Installed a magnum cap and she fired just like it should have.

With that said, when I first got the rifle I tried to shoot round balls, which it doesn't play well with. Never had a misfire. And I shot quite a bit of lubed patch and round ball trying to make it happen. What I have found is the shallow goove of the 1:48 twist just doesn't like round balls. Thus I have mostly shot Maxi Balls. Some claim it can be done with RB, but I have not been able to find a way. There is nothing more that I would like than to shoot RB out of my New Englander.

And you are smart in doing so. My New Englander needs to have a brush ran down the barrel after two shots at a minimum, especially when shooting conicals. I often will wet a cleaning patch down with TC#13 then follow up with a couple dry patches. Then, as stated, snap a cap or two through it before loading.

Good luck to you.

Thank you! I’m probably shy on snapping caps because of the difficulty getting them. I try hard to shoot at least once a week and I’m working thru a batch of musket caps on the NE and looking at the mod for 209 primers. But that’s a ways off. Thank you again.

 

[ETipp]

Thank you! I’m probably shy on snapping caps because of the difficulty getting them. I try hard to shoot at least once a week and I’m working thru a batch of musket caps on the NE and looking at the mod for 209 primers. But that’s a ways off. Thank you again.

Oh you are welcome. Indeed, snapping caps can add up but I find it imperative. Thus the reason that I have only had 3 misfires in all my years (other than one time after being out in the pouring rain for a couple hours). But that was not my fault. But you gotta snap a cap after running a brush or wet patch down the barrel.

Also, I do not know if it was mentioned but after you snap a cap or two, and pour the powder down the barrel, always lean the rifle over towards the lock side (while still holding it upwards) and take your hand and wrap on the butt stock a few times. This helps settle loose powder in the flash channel. Then load the ball, cap and fire away.

 

[64Springer]

If the rifle worked with Pyro RS, go back to the Pyro RS.

Reinventing the wheel seems to be working against you.

Pyro RS produces very little fouling, and you can shoot many dozens of balls and not have to swab your barrel. Saving you from pushing wet black crud into your flash channel.

Pyro RS produces the best groups in my Traditions Kentuckyish.

 

[ORBushman]

Traditions Kentuckyish.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Bob K, @SDSmlf has the likely problem identified. Black powder will create a lot of fouling and attention has to be paid to the fouling to prevent the fouling from blocking the flash channel. Naturally your New Englander will complicate the problem by having a chambered breech. Normal wiping will pack that chamber with fouling and that will block flame from the cap setting off the powder charge. It's not necessarily a bad idea to wipe between shots, but we do have to make sure we are keeping the fouling out of the chambered breech. The spit lubricated cleaning patch will push fouling. One solution is to have a slightly smaller wiping jag that will slide over the fouling as the patch is pushed to the breech and will bunch up to pull up the fouling as the patch is withdrawn. A subcaliber brush of 30 caliber can clean out the chambered breech. Firing a cap will often expel the fouling from the chambered breech, but in this case of cap scarcity we should try to avoid this.

Of course, as SDSmlf suggests a wetter patch on the ball (and your mix of 1 part Ballistol to 4 (to 7) parts of water will probably allow you shoot repeatedly without wiping to clean the bore. The wet patched round ball does the cleaning. The wet patch won't have time to foul the load on the shooting range.

 

[Bert621]

I swab with rubbing alcohol, (99%) followed by a dry patch

 

[ord sgt]

Most likely you are pushing fouling down the barrel while cleaning. Some of the fouling is blocking the flash channel. Before you load again, snap at least two caps on an empty barrel. One downrange and the second one pointed down in front of you. Watch to see if dirt or grass moves. This will indicate a clear flash channel. Insert your load and cap, it will greatly increase your chances of getting the new load to fire.

 

[ETipp]

Most likely you are pushing fouling down the barrel while cleaning. Some of the fouling is blocking the flash channel. Before you load again, snap at least two caps on an empty barrel. One downrange and the second one pointed down in front of you. Watch to see if dirt or grass moves. This will indicate a clear flash channel. Insert your load and cap, it will greatly increase your chances of getting the new load to fire.

Yes sir.

 

[Bob K]

Okay, at the risk of not reading all the replies to this thread. And being a New Englander owner/shooter, I will weigh in on this. Please do not take this as condescending because it is not. And I certainly do not claim to know it all, but I do want to share this with you in hopes it helps rectify the issues you have been having.

I have shot my New Englander a fair amount over the years. Fired it quite a bit in the last week or two at the range testing different loads, bullet combinations, powder charges, etc. I have had a total of two misfires from that rifle over the years, both due to not ascertaining the flash hole/channel was clear after cleaning. I have shot black powder almost 100%. However, I did shoot some 777 loose powder a couple weeks ago. As long as I snapped a cap or two after cleaning and ascertaining the channel was clear, it has never failed going off. Not even after running a wet patch down the barrel after every shot, followed up by dry patches, at the range. Oh yeah, almost forgot. I did have a misfire when shooting 777 loose powder and using standard caps. I always shoot magnum caps and snap standard caps. So I got the two mixed up and she didn't fire. So there is that. Installed a magnum cap and she fired just like it should have.

With that said, when I first got the rifle I tried to shoot round balls, which it doesn't play well with. Never had a misfire. And I shot quite a bit of lubed patch and round ball trying to make it happen. What I have found is the shallow goove of the 1:48 twist just doesn't like round balls. Thus I have mostly shot Maxi Balls. Some claim it can be done with RB, but I have not been able to find a way. There is nothing more that I would like than to shoot RB out of my New Englander.

And you are smart in doing so. My New Englander needs to have a brush ran down the barrel after two shots at a minimum, especially when shooting conicals. I often will wet a cleaning patch down with TC#13 then follow up with a couple dry patches. Then, as stated, snap a cap or two through it before loading.

Good luck to you.

Here’s a follow up from yesterdays shooting experience. Started with 6 rounds of conicals then cleaned And fired 2 caps, shot s second group of six, cleaned and fired 2 caps, thought I’ve got the right combo. Cleaned and Shot round ok, loaded a second round and misfired. Fired 6 caps and each misfired. Pulled the bullet and powder out, cleaned the nipple, blew down the barrel and no air out the nipple hole. Put a tight patch on my cleaning rod, put the barrel in 6” of water and the cleaning rod (almost air tight) pushed out enough junk to turn the water black. I’ve now convinced myself there is a shelf at the bottom that does not allow me to get my cleaning rod all the way down past the flash hole. Time to pull the breach plug? I’m not the original owner so know how history. Want to trade??

 

[Grimord]

As Grenadier 1758 said. Get yourself a .36 or .32 jag to wipe the bore. the small jag will go down into the chambered breech, and a twist of the rod will get the fouling to be pulled out. At one time, I took a T/C breech plug scraper and filed a few grooves in the edge of it to hold a patch so I could clean the patient breech when at the range. It might work for you too!.