TC New Englander puzzle
- Thread starter Bob K
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,136
- Reaction score
- 3,087
Powder residue is being shoved into the patent breech and flame channel. The flame channel is being clogged. Clean the channel with a bristled pipe cleaner. After loading the powder lean the rifle lock side down and give the stock a couple whacks with the palm. That will allow powder to enter the flame channel.
https://www.amazon.com/Bundles-Pipe-Cleaners-Bristle-Count/dp/B000W5R6UA
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2009
- Messages
- 3,136
- Reaction score
- 3,087
Yes.
Indeed. I read a thread on another forum where a guy uses a small handheld steamer to get the crud out of the flash holes. He stated that he has cleaned his ML many times very well in the past. Then after he tried a steamer, he claims a bunch of fouling came out.
OP, you might want to look into one of those. I briefly checked them out on, I think it was, Amazon and they were about $40.00 or so for the average steamers.
Also, I made it a habit years ago to always wrap on the lock side of the butt stock after pouring the powder charge down the barrel and before seating the projectile.
Check out this thread on breeches.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...different-breeches.155219/page-2#post-2201278
Who would have thunk, the cleanout screw is actually for cleaning!
T/C breech plug cutaway below:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...different-breeches.155219/page-2#post-2201278
Who would have thunk, the cleanout screw is actually for cleaning!
T/C breech plug cutaway below:
Cool illustration. Quite the chamber in those. No wonder it can be so difficult to run something down there to clean it out. Fortunately, I have not ran into any issues with that on any of my TC's I have owned but I can now see how others have.
CVA breeches are even more convoluted and tougher to keep clean. I have never thought of using a steam cleaner. I have one and I will start using it!
Let us know how it works out. If they are as good as the one guy stated, I may invest in one.
Pull the barrel and submerge it in a bucket of water… pumping water thru a patten breach is all I’ve ever done…
I’ve never had any issues when cleaning patten breech guns..
Swabbing between shots does create other issues however…
I’ve never had any issues when cleaning patten breech guns..
Swabbing between shots does create other issues however…
I've shot TC sidelocks for many years using black powder. If you follow this advice you will not have misfires. Use 3f if you can (not set in stone). Fire the weapon and reload. If you feel the need to swab then swab after loading. This way dry powder makes it all the way through the communication hole to the nipple (No wet crud from swabbing). If you use a wet lube on your patch you can shoot many shots before you swab. If you want to swab do this and enjoy your New Englander if you have a steel rang rod.
1. Load powder
2. place patch and ball on muzzle
3. use the long end of the short starter and seat ball into muzzle about 4 or 5 inches
4. Lick a cleaning patch and place on muzzle
5. Seat ball and swab with one stroke.
6. cap and shoot and enjoy no misfires.
It is very strange that it is the SECOND shot after swabbing that won't go off. If cleaning/swabbing the bore was pushing fouling into the patent breech and blocking the flame channel, then why would the first shot go off after swabbing but then the second shot is the one that gives a fail to fire?
That is a tough one to wrap my brain around.
When you swab, how damp is that first patch you run down the bore? The "damp" swab should be only damp, absolutely nothing can be squeezed out of it.
I really have no answer for why the 2nd shot after swabbing is the problematic one???
I have a TC Renegade. They have shallow grooves and I've found mine cannot be shot without swabbing and keep good accuracy. Damp target type patch lube, yes, I can load and shoot all day without swabbing but the 4th shot after not swabbing, and all shots after the 4th, it will not hit a 2' x 2' box at 50 yards. No matter how tight of a patch I put around the ball to try to maintain the same bore consistency when loading, after that 4th shot it goes to parts unknown.
Damp or grease type patch lube, swabbed at least every other shot, and it'll keep shots in a 1" circle at 50 yards if I'm doing my part well.
I, too, found that swabbing gave me fail to fires from pushing fouling into the patent breech, but it was the very first shot after swabbing that wouldn't go off. Pull the nipple and trickle a bit of powder in, replace, and fire a cap and it would ignite the main charge.
I cured that problem two different ways. At first I just popped a cap after swabbing and that would clear the fouling out of the patent breech, next load would go off fine.
Being frugal, especially now that #11 caps are like hen's teeth around here, I read on here about a second way to solve the problem. Pushing fouling down when swabbing is from the jag and swab being too tight of a fit in a fouled bore. Chuck the jag into a cordless drill and spin it on a flat file to turn it down, until it fits with the swab so that they go down a fouled bore smoothly, but then the patch bunches and pulls the fouling OUT of the bore. Works like a charm. I run the damp patch all the way down, wait about 6 to 8 seconds for the fouling to soften a bit, then pull it back out of the bore. If at the range I often forego even running a second dry swab with no issues, but hunting I'll run the dry swab for sure.
I like how easy it is to load after swabbing so I just swab after every shot. I have not had a fail to fire since I turned the jag down. I do not have to pop a cap and double my cap usage.
I can't remember exact numbers, but when I turned the jag down for my .54 I can remember that the finished product was really close to the diameter of a store bought .52 cal jag. That is using a 2" round cleaning swab with it.
That is a tough one to wrap my brain around.
When you swab, how damp is that first patch you run down the bore? The "damp" swab should be only damp, absolutely nothing can be squeezed out of it.
I really have no answer for why the 2nd shot after swabbing is the problematic one???
I have a TC Renegade. They have shallow grooves and I've found mine cannot be shot without swabbing and keep good accuracy. Damp target type patch lube, yes, I can load and shoot all day without swabbing but the 4th shot after not swabbing, and all shots after the 4th, it will not hit a 2' x 2' box at 50 yards. No matter how tight of a patch I put around the ball to try to maintain the same bore consistency when loading, after that 4th shot it goes to parts unknown.
Damp or grease type patch lube, swabbed at least every other shot, and it'll keep shots in a 1" circle at 50 yards if I'm doing my part well.
I, too, found that swabbing gave me fail to fires from pushing fouling into the patent breech, but it was the very first shot after swabbing that wouldn't go off. Pull the nipple and trickle a bit of powder in, replace, and fire a cap and it would ignite the main charge.
I cured that problem two different ways. At first I just popped a cap after swabbing and that would clear the fouling out of the patent breech, next load would go off fine.
Being frugal, especially now that #11 caps are like hen's teeth around here, I read on here about a second way to solve the problem. Pushing fouling down when swabbing is from the jag and swab being too tight of a fit in a fouled bore. Chuck the jag into a cordless drill and spin it on a flat file to turn it down, until it fits with the swab so that they go down a fouled bore smoothly, but then the patch bunches and pulls the fouling OUT of the bore. Works like a charm. I run the damp patch all the way down, wait about 6 to 8 seconds for the fouling to soften a bit, then pull it back out of the bore. If at the range I often forego even running a second dry swab with no issues, but hunting I'll run the dry swab for sure.
I like how easy it is to load after swabbing so I just swab after every shot. I have not had a fail to fire since I turned the jag down. I do not have to pop a cap and double my cap usage.
I can't remember exact numbers, but when I turned the jag down for my .54 I can remember that the finished product was really close to the diameter of a store bought .52 cal jag. That is using a 2" round cleaning swab with it.
I don't clean between shots. I use T/C Bore Butter for a lube with patches or conicals... nothing with unmentionables. I don't like Pyrodex, though I have used it. In general, I use 3f Old Eynsford black powder or 3f Triple seven.
My suggestion is to stop cleaning between shots, clean when you are getting ready to put the rifle away for the day and to go to a 3f granulation powder. You don't mention the powder charge (unless I missed it), but most people use more powder than they need. With a PRB in any of the calibers the New Englander came in, you really don't need more than fifty grains of powder... and maybe less, depending upon your range and what you are shooting at. More powder means more fouling. That is to be avoided, especially if you are cleaning between shots and possibly pushing a wad of crud into your breech.
Spit patches work, or so I am told, but they contain moisture. Moisture is the enemy. Use a non-petroleum grease or oil, and not very much of it is needed.
I used to snap a cap before loading, but like you, I don't like to waste my caps, so I stopped doing it shortly after using up the last of my 2f Triple-7. There are as many ways to plug the flash channel this way as to clear it. As a rule, I don't have misfires.
You might want to try an aftermarket nipple... whatever the current version of the Uncle Mike's Hot Shot Nipple might be.
You didn't mention the brand of caps you are using. Try some Winchester or CCI Magnums.
As in all things, your mileage may vary.
My suggestion is to stop cleaning between shots, clean when you are getting ready to put the rifle away for the day and to go to a 3f granulation powder. You don't mention the powder charge (unless I missed it), but most people use more powder than they need. With a PRB in any of the calibers the New Englander came in, you really don't need more than fifty grains of powder... and maybe less, depending upon your range and what you are shooting at. More powder means more fouling. That is to be avoided, especially if you are cleaning between shots and possibly pushing a wad of crud into your breech.
Spit patches work, or so I am told, but they contain moisture. Moisture is the enemy. Use a non-petroleum grease or oil, and not very much of it is needed.
I used to snap a cap before loading, but like you, I don't like to waste my caps, so I stopped doing it shortly after using up the last of my 2f Triple-7. There are as many ways to plug the flash channel this way as to clear it. As a rule, I don't have misfires.
You might want to try an aftermarket nipple... whatever the current version of the Uncle Mike's Hot Shot Nipple might be.
You didn't mention the brand of caps you are using. Try some Winchester or CCI Magnums.
As in all things, your mileage may vary.
tgfrench
40 Cal
Rather than firing all those caps, after second cap failure remove nipple and insert small amount of powder. Also consider not removing spent cap for previous shot until after reloading. And as mentioned pay attention to your jag and cleaning patch size.
if not said t/c has a patent breech and a special scraper is made for them. might want to try one.. also might want to try thicker patch with a round ball.
Far from expert here, but I have 2 TC Hawkens with the same fussiness and I hate wasting caps. I do swipe between shots with a cotton patch lightly dosed with avocado oil. I prep a pile of these at home. When I pull the patch, using a 50 cal jag, I do it very quickly so it pops out the muzzle like a champagne cork. The suction from doing this seems to clear the nipple and flash channel pretty well and misfires are now rare. Thumbs up to the recommendation to remove the nipple after using 2 caps and having consecutive misfires. If there isn't any powder under the nipple you are plugged or not 'knocking' it into the flash channel when loading. Add some powder to the channel, pick the nipple clear, replace and it will go bang. As said previously, no need to pull the bullets. This works well for me and I am using t-7, 2f and standard cci #11's. Nipples are Knight Hot Shots with a flash hole around .034. SW
Correction; the nipples are Knight Red Hots. SW
To me the jag is to big in diameter and the fouling is being pushed down to the breech. A bit smaller jag will push down without taking the fouling down before it then the patch will bunch up when pulled out bringing the fouling out with it.
Try using spit for lube(liberal) and don't clean!
Nit Wit
Nit Wit
if not already said, there is a special breech plug scraper made for the t/c/ recessed breech plug. fits into the cup on the plug. you should get one added to your kit. the log cabin shop has them in stock. 5 bucks
