TC renegade load problems

[wgg]

If you are using TC 13 Bore Cleaner, there are better choices. The stuff does not have a good reputation. Good old warm water and a bit of dish soap does a better job in my opinion. Remove the barrel from the stock, remove the nipple, put some warm water in a container, and pump with a tight patch and jag combination. Don’t forget to use muzzle protector if you have one. Repeat with just warm water, they dry with compressed air if available, followed with WD40. Store the barrel over night muzzle down. Take another look the next day and see what the bore looks like. May need to follow up with a bore brush and a solvent to remove lead if that what you find. Could try one of those foaming cleaners like Wipe-Out and or a bore polish such as J-Bs. That will likely get your bore as clean as you can get it without lapping, at least in my opinion. Once clean, try some patched roundballs. Most every TC 1-48 barrel will shoot them well.

 

[Cattman]

if you resized that bullet your useing to 9 thousands under the top of the lands groove size then you could paper patch it and shoot 100 grains behind the bullet with out a problem. also use a 60 thousands wad between powder and bullet. if you did this that gun would keep a tight group at 100 yards. wipe between rounds so it loads easy and shoots good groups.

 

[Jimbrynn]

well, thanks to you guys, I feel like I am on my way to getting the puzzle solved! I will continue to apply the cleaning methods you all are recommending this week and get that barrel rust and lead free.

from no on, I will no longer will I be putting conicals down this old girl. She will be a PRB lady from this day forward, with lots of thorough cleaning and quality care.

I’ll post an update by the end of the week and hopefully will be showing ya’ll a clean bore!

got to get her ready for late elk season on December 2nd!

 

[SDSmlf]

got to get her ready for late elk season on December 2nd!

Plenty of time.

 

[LRSmoker]

so, I have been giving my arm a workout! I have been swabbing the barrel with a bronze brush, then with a cleaning jig that is wrapped in very fine steel wool soaked in Hoppes No. (then cleaning with a bunch of patches soaked in hoppes No. 9, followed by a cleaning dry patch. I must have worked that brush and steel wool over 300 Times. It’s looks a lot better, but I think that is lead that is still showing up in the video? I watched a video that tested 9 different lead solvents, and hoppes No. 9 scored the highest among the ones they tested...so I gave it a run for its money!

I feel like I have made significant progress today thanks to you guys. The barrel is much much cleaner. But, if that is indeed lead, how do I get the rest out??

I heard mention that people are using some sort of electric current rod and liquid that pulls the lead out of the barrel??

advice?

I’m impressed by all the effort that you are putting into finding out the “root cause” for your inaccuracy. By the high quality photo that you managed to take it’s clear to me that you still have leading in there and a surface that could use a good polishing. IdahoLewis recommends using the Lee Shaver method with steel wool to polish a bore and I have had very good results using that approach to help reduce leading. Leading is generally caused by many things including excessive velocity, inadequate or insufficient lube, gas cutting from not using an over powder wad etc .... I would start by cleaning up the bore using the Lee Shaver method and then trying recipes similar to what IdahoLewis uses to see how your barrel reacts. IdahoLewis is a great source of knowledge and you should read as many of his posts as possible to see what he recommends.
As a side note , could you tell us what kind of camera allowed you to take such a high quality picture ?
Good luck.

 

[Jimbrynn]

I bought a testing rifle bore scope for $45 on Amazon . connects to your phone or computer....prett neat. It’s definitely not the best, but it does a pretty good job.

I will definitely look up idaholewis! Thanks.

 

[Jimbrynn]

Teslong rifle borescope

 

[renegadehunter]

If it was shooting accurately but suddenly started throwing them everywhere, then all that leading in the barrel happened when you were shooting and has now caused poor accuracy.
Get some copper Choirboy (make sure it is 100% copper!) or some 0000 steel wool and wrap around a brush, it will strip the leading out nicely.
Idaholewis has said that he finds an 1/8" lubed felt wad between powder and conical drastically reduces leading. He believes it protects the base of the conical from being damaged/melted, so it both reduces leading and increases accuracy. He also recently did some shooting with maxi-balls, he shot 3 with both grooves lubed and 3 with just the lower groove lubed. The ones with just the lower groove lubed shot night and day better. He believes that giant upper groove doesn't shed all of the lube and results in it flying down range while still having a glob of lube on one side. That's gonna make for some really poor concentricity.
I've had much better accuracy with 2f when using conicals in my .54 Renegade, although it shoots 3f fine with patched round ball (PRB). Mine likes the Hornady Great Plains bullets so I don't use a felt wad with them. It does result in my seeing some leading in the bore. I much prefer to just shoot PRB's in mine.
I believe if you get all of that leading out of the barrel and then try some maxi-balls with just the lower groove lubed and an 1/8" lubed felt wad over the powder, along with trying some 2f, that you'll find some pretty good accuracy.
For a PRB load, TC's tend to like a thicker patch that is barely lubed. I'd start testing for an accurate load with a .490 RB and try both .015" cotton patch and an .018" pillow ticking patch. Lightly lube them with the lube of your choice, by lightly lubed I mean barely enough on them to rub in clear out to the edges.

 

[Jimbrynn]

It’s taking a lot of elbow grease, but it’s coming together. Hope to have a sparkling clean barrel by tomorrow.

now, so I don’t continue along my path of rookie mistakes...can you guys suggest a a charge to put behind a PRB Using 3f pyrodex? I would consider switching powders in the future, but everything is hard to find right now.

I realize each gun will tell its own story on what it likes, but any suggestions you have for a starting point, and what would be to hot a charge given the short barrel and rate of twist would be very helpful.... I need a good load for elk.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Carbon 6]

Is a 50 round ball legal for elk ?

 

[Jimbrynn]

Yeah, here in idaho we can use PRB or any conical non jacketed bullet....no sabots, no 209 primers, must have an exposed ignition system, and using only loose powders....

 

[HiDesertHunter]

FWIW my Renegade shoots ragged one hole at 50 yards with 60 grains of Pyrodex P (3F) either PRB or conical.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The 60 grains (volume measure) of Pyrodex pushing a 0.490" ball wrapped in a 0.020" cotton patch lubricated with olive oil or dis washing soap seems like a good place to start.

 

[Jimbrynn]

thanks, that is great to know...actually my shoulder is smiling as well.

 

[Bad Karma]

Try another projectile. Check out Idaholewis on youtube. He has a video speculating that not all the lube being used in the barrel, and it is still attached to the Maxi-ball inconsistently, throwing the shot off course. Sounds good to me. Try the Hornady Plains bullet.

Lewis also uses an additive with his Spg, stihl synthetic lube mixed into the melted lube. He said the stuff will not lead... also uses the card or wool wad at the same time.

 

[Jimbrynn]

Thanks everyone! I still have some lead that needs to come out, but I think I am ready. PRB chased by 60 gr. of 3f pyrodex..its stacking them up nicely At 50 yards. Now, the big test will be repeatabilty after thorough cleaning....back to the range tomorrow to test it out!

 

[Walkingeagle]

Try bumping to 70 gr and see if thing tighten more.

 

[Jimbrynn]

Well, I tried the 70 grains, and what it produced is 2 holes at the top of the target, one at the very bottom, and one at 5’oclock in the red. But 4 shots with 60 grains gave me a 1.5 inch group.....think I will just have to settle for this...... I also found that if I just clean with Hopes 9 and no soap and water In between shots, it provided me some great consistency. I was trying to replicate what a clean bore would produce on the first shot. All shots were at 50 yards.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Fyi, I like 90gr 3fg.
Walk

 

[LRSmoker]

Personally I don’t think that you should have such a radical difference between the two loads JUST due to velocity. I would look for my patches from the different loads and compare them to see if the are getting cut or blown. I have also found that the heat generated by 3F over 2F can cause issues depending on the ambient temperature. Ball diameter, patch material, ACTUAL COMPRESSED patch thickness, powder type/ granulation and charge volume all have an effect on group size.