Tell Me About Your "Horrible" Barrel

[galamb]

If you search through years of posts you see topics about best barrels fairly often.

Inevitably you get lot's of responses talking about how barrel A or B is a "tack driver".

By the end of the thread you would probably be able to conclude that pretty much every barrel out there is pretty darn fine.

So got me wondering. I have never personally come across a "bad barrel", one that just wouldn't shoot if some other issue wasn't addressed unless it was so badly damaged or abused that it was un-serviceable - that's not what I'm after here.

So tell the truth - who has got a new barrel that was just plain "junk" no matter how it was loaded or who was shooting it (not a bad lock, loose breech, crappy trigger) - does any actually exist out there???

 

[azmntman]

Well.... I have a CVA bobcat .36 that I have shot very little, really only 20 or so shots and most with maxiballs.

Took it out last Sunday and of course I forgot caps AND patches. I had enough "stuff" in my big box (cleaning and service box) to get off 11 shots. Using thin patches I shot 5 shots at measured 50 yds with a "decent rest" (ya it was out the window of the Corolla!). Grouped about 6 inches! Using round balls. Then found 6 shots worth of heavy ticking and next six shots about 3". NOT good enough for me! I will go back out with all manner of patch material and my recently received mink oil, and ther lubes, and sufficient caps, and if I don't forget the powder (I usually forget one component), will try to dial in a accurate load. At 50 yds I expect VERY near an inch group. If I cant do it I will reply again and add this one to the factory poor barrel and then post in classifieds!

What do you folks find as the most accurate load for a CVA .36 caplock? I believe I was shooting around 25 grains fffG Goex. Will also try triple 7 and pyrodex next time out!

 

[jamesthomas]

I've never heard about one either. I've had some people say they have gotten a new barrel with a loose spot in it but they haven't said weather or not it was a bad shooter.

 

[sc45-70]

I have

I ordered a custom 58 caliber barrel from a well respected barrel maker. I wanted a barrel to shoot Minnie balls and on the makers suggestion I ordered the barrel with a 1 in 38 twist.

To make a long story short, no matter what Minnie ball or powder load I used I could barely hit a 4 foot square target at 25 yards and the few minnies that did hit the target key holed.

In the end I cut the barrel into pistol barrels and they shot round balls ok.

FYI I ordered another Minnie ball barrel from another maker in the same twist and it shoots great.

SC45-70

 

[Richard Brinkman]

I have been fighting a Green Mountain 50 cal barrel 1 1/8 across the flats. I bought this barrel hopefully to make a light bench rest rifle out of it. NO GO! First off it the rifling was very rough it looked as though the lands were like train tracks needless to say it ate up patches something terrible. And it didn't make any difference as to what kind of ball and patch combination, big ball loose ball tight patch loose patch, Teflon patch shredded and sometimes burning even tried wool felt between the powder and patch this did help some but didn't take care of the rough lands. And then the issue of the crown! looking at the crown under good light it was cut off center. So finally I sent it off to a good gunsmith he cut 2 inches off the barrel and re-crowned the barrel. That helped a bunch no more torn patches and the rough spots in the barrel are starting to smooth up after about 300 rounds it just might turn into a shooter. I did fire lap it few times, run Scotch brite up and down the barrel along with 0000 steel wool. I was getting ready to pull the breech plug and pour a lead lap but that is a lot of work I think that it is going to wear in OK. The last time out I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yards of about .750 so that's a lot more acceptable. If it will keep doing that I'll be a happy camper!

RB

 

[Zonie]

Back around 1971 I sent away for a 28 guage fullstock percussion shot gun.

The stock was a 2 piece design with the joint between the forend and the rest of the gun covered with a piece of thin brass sheet metal.
The wrist had some very poorly done checkering on it.

At the rear of the barrel was a separate piece about 1 inch long with the nipple screwed into the top.

The gun was obviously cheaply made but it would pop a cap so I went to a gun store and bought a box of 28 guage shotgun shells for the shot and wads that are in them.

Dissecting a few of these gave me everything I needed to load up my muzzleloader so I took it out to the desert.

Loading it up with what seemed to be a reasonable amount of DuPont black powder, wads and shot I capped it, took aim and fired.

Sure enough. It went off with a resounding boom.

After firing the shot I looked down at the gun and noticed smoke coming out of the area between the stock and the barrel.

After removing the barrel I saw that the entire area of the stock around the bottom of the breech was covered with black powder fouling.

Needless to say, I didn't shoot it again.

When I got home and cleaned the barrel and stock I noticed there was a slight gap between the breech plug and the barrel. Coming out of this gap was some hardened braze alloy.

Needless to say, I never shot that gun again and I fully warned the guy who I sold it to about my experience. He said he was buying it as a wall decoration so I didn't feel bad about selling it to him.

Anyway, that is the only barrel I've ever had that I would call "horrible".

 

[Rod Lassey]

My second muzzleloading rifle was an old Zoli M1803 Harper's Ferry rifle. The .58 cal. barrel had 3 lands, 3 grooves, and VERY shallow grooves, at that. It also had a rather fast twist. In order to get any sort of accuracy, I had to shoot an extremely tight ball/patch combo, with no more than about 50-55 grains of 2F. I found out after I bought it that the rifleing was designed for minie type bullets, and wouldn't shoot roundball with any accuracy. What's more, the front sight dovetail was cut at an angle in relation to the rear sight, so I had to have the front sight drifted waaay over to one side, and the rear sight drifted waaay over to the other side to line them up on target. I smoothbored the barrel and never regretted it.

Rod

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I was present while a gent was helping to install underlugs in a reputable barrel makers 38" "C" weight 54 cal barrel, while the owner of said parts and I looked on the master proceeded to put hack saw to the waist of said barrel it was only a couple light strokes and he done cut that barrel right into the grooves, I was a bit shocked while the owner was mortified.

After a bit of pokes and prods the dial calipers came out and low an behold we had a "set up barrel" deminsionally it was closer to a "B" weight barrel than a "C" weight.

I shudder at the thought of that project being finished with the waist lug having been soldered on.

Any way, that little fiasco netted a new 54 cal. "C" weight barrel inlet into a stock as well as another complete swamped an tapered parts set.

 

[mooman76]

I never had one either or known of one and I have at least a DZ. Most I bought used. I did have a couple center fire rifles that way but that's another story.

 

[JJ June]

My second BP rifle is a .32 Traditions Crocket. Upon unpacking the lock wasn't allowing the hammer to fall and was out of alignment with the nipple. By now that warm fuz zy feeling that a new rifle gives one is slipping a tad. I pulled it all apart and cleaned parts and re-inletted the lock. That fixed I pulled the bbl, unscrewed the breach plug and slugged both ends. The breach end was 0.002" smaller than the muzzle, ugg. Anyway, back together with it and to the range, a 50' walk. 35yd sightin yielded a 13" group. Changed patches, powder charge from 10 to 30 grains measured. A small variety on a theme but no real improvement and shreaded patches. Soooo, pulled the bbl and poured a long lap. Lots of little tight spots but nothing like the restriction at the breach end. 3 hours and 6 laps later we are nicely smooth from end to end. Ressembled ( found a split in the stock between the lock and tang). Repaired that and off to the range. Groups were much better in the 2" range. Tomorrow it's time to weigh balls, play with patches and see what this pretty girl will do.

 

[Rifleman1776]

who has got a new barrel that was just plain "junk" no matter how it was loaded or who was shooting it (not a bad lock, loose breech, crappy trigger) - does any actually exist out there???

1970 my first ml rifle, a CVA 'kentucky' flintlock. Two piece barrel. El Junko.
Actually, I should be grateful to CVA for that. I owned a retail store, put the rifle and El Cheapo bag and horn with rifle in window with a for sale sign. A guy bought it quickly. Interesting that he and his wife were regular customers but could never afford some necessity items but he came up with money right away for this rifle. Taught me something about mentality of men and guns. On that experience I opened a gun shop and did well with it. Did I go ff ?

 

[galamb]

This is kinda what I expected.

If we were taking a poll it would look like your highest odds of getting "junk" would be with one of the entry level offerings built offshore.

Then there was the example of the "custom" job and one from one of the more (common) contemporary barrel makers.

Still all in all pretty minuscule odds of getting something that won't shoot.

So if these replies are typical and representative of a wider audience you might be able to draw the conclusion that if you stick to a well known or somewhat prolific source you will probably get a decent barrel.

 

[stinkyfeet]

If you search through years of posts you see topics about best barrels fairly often.

Inevitably you get lot's of responses talking about how barrel A or B is a "tack driver".

By the end of the thread you would probably be able to conclude that pretty much every barrel out there is pretty darn fine.

So got me wondering. I have never personally come across a "bad barrel", one that just wouldn't shoot if some other issue wasn't addressed unless it was so badly damaged or abused that it was un-serviceable - that's not what I'm after here.

So tell the truth - who has got a new barrel that was just plain "junk" no matter how it was loaded or who was shooting it (not a bad lock, loose breech, crappy trigger) - does any actually exist out there???

The last two barrel that came as part of lyman GPR kits. One shot so far left from being bored crooked the sights couldnt be adjusted to hit true with out falling off the barrel. The other barrel the rib hole closest to the muzzle was drilled to deep and into the rifling of the gun. Is this what you are looking for. Ohh one more 20 years ago a CVA double 50 kit the barrels were so far off Stevie Wonder must have welded them. The left barrel shot 5 inches right and low, the right barrel shot left and high by 6 inches at 50 yards benched. No way to adjust sights on it to hit anything other than one barrel. The barrel has since been cut apart and repaired by my buddy in his machine and now its muchhhh better not perfect but averages 4 inch groups between both barrels

 

[galamb]

Yes on the first example - crappy barrel.

On your second example the barrel may have been fine had the guy running the machine not dozed off - but the result was the same - un-shootable barrel.

The point I was trying to make with this thread was -

someone posts asking about the "best" barrel and inevitably what they get is alot of personal opinions - and nothing wrong with that.

By the end of the post you would think that every barrel ever produced was a "tack driver".

I tend to agree with that. There is very, very few "crappy" barrels out there if you stick the more prolific offerings.

The way I see it, new comers or others looking to get a second rifle or "change brands" shouldn't be asking what is "best", but instead ask what to "stay away from".

For the consensus seems to be whether it was produced in a factory in Spain or custom built by a domestic barrel maker, it's going to "drive tacks".

(which is valuable info if I ever switch from hunting deer to tacks :rotf: )

 

[cynthialee]

you know...I have never owned a gun I couldn't get to shoot at least minute of pie plate after some working on it :wink:
Some of them have been down right surprising the accuracy they can get. Never judge a book or a gun by its' cover so to speak.

 

[Billnpatti]

Back in the 60s, there were some pretty bad imported barrels being sold and may still be lurking in closets. But almost all of the modern barrel makers turn out pretty good barrels. I actually don't know of an American barrel maker who is making poor quality barrels these days. Maybe someone else may know of one but I don't.

 

[azmntman]

Happy Birthday!

 

[AZbpBurner]

I bought what turned out to be a Cabelas Sporterized Hawken (checkered stock).54 cal percussion rifle. The asking price was $175, until I pointed out the big, honkin' pitted spot about an inch in from the muzzle. Brought it home for $125, and before I reached for hacksaw and crowning tools, I decided to go shoot it, just to see how badly it would group.

10 rounds later at 75' I had settled on an accurate load, and the next 10 shots fired left a big, ragged hole in the center of the target. Doubtful it would have been any more accurate without that pitted spot. It annoys me that the pit is there, but accuracy is good enough that I'm considering installing a rear peep and front globe sight.

From what I've seen over the years, there aren't a lot of really lousy barrels out there, but there ARE a lot of marksmen in need of more practice more often.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There is very, very few "crappy" barrels out there

It would be a very time consuming and expensive task, but I would like to see tests with barrels from different makers. Test eliminating as many variables as possible for accuracy. These days, I suspect, you would get near identical results from an El Cheapo import as from the revered old timer craftsman here in the U.S.

 

[jamesthomas]

We've have seen over the years here, that you can take 2 barrels from the same company and they can have 2 different sweet spots for accuracy, say one likes 80 grns. of 3fff, a .018 patch with a .490 RB. and the other one wants 70 grns. of 3fff, a .015 patch with a O.P. wad with the.490 ball. I think sometimes it comes down to people not trying enough different loads, and give up by saying they have a bad barrel. I think there are very few if any bad barrels that come right out of the wrapping paper.