Terminal Ballistics with Hardcast

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Due to the lead free regs here in CA, I'm working on a cast bullet design with the Rotometals lead free alloy for my .45 with a 1:48 twist. While roundball shoots fine, the alloy casts at only 109 grains in .440. I'm sure that would still punch through a deer. But it's so light that I doubt how effective it would be much past about 50 yards -- especially if I hit bone. So I've been working on getting a cast conical bullet option and have had some promising results with cloth patched .430s. The alloy is very hard and performs like hardcast lead, just at about 87% of the weight. There is no deformation -- all punch and no expansion. The last range session was focused on getting the Lee .429-200 to work just to prove the concept. That has been accomplished -- it's shootable. Now, it's about refinement & load development. I plan to order a custom mould and can use some help with design details.

While a wadcutter design would probably be best at short range, they lose speed quickly, like round ball. And with a conical, that means instability past about 50 yards. Because of the 1:48 twist, the bullet length needs to be no longer than 0.6" though something closer to 0.5" would be better. That limits the weight to something between 165-200 grains in lead. So a compromise has to be reached on the design that allows for a bit more aerodynamic profile but without sacrificing too much of the meplat or the weight. Ideally, I'd like the bullet to still be stable out at 100 yards, though I doubt I'd be taking a shot out that far on live animals. 75-80 yards will be my most likely max. The Lee 429-200 has a meplat measuring about 0.27". I've read in a few places that meplats over 0.3" are where things start to ramp up on the terminal end of things and small increases from there can really improve the damage they create. I've only used wadcutters to hunt with small caliber airguns and really like how much more damage they do compared with round noses. So I'm interested if anybody else has had experience hunting with wide meplat designs and whether they found that 0.3" figure is meaningful or just a loose guideline.

During my range sessions, I've also noticed that the Lee 429-200, with its 0.27" meplat, shows a smaller hole in the target compared with roundball. It's a subtle difference. But small changes in diameter have big effects on total area and, I'd suspect, on terminal performance. Once again, I'm curious to know if anybody can attest to any noticeable difference between hardcast roundball and hardcast conicals with sub-0.3" meplats.

And to add one more question to the mix, what other bullet designs might be a better compromise than a round nose flat point? I've heard some good and some bad about truncated cones & semi wadcutters. Are these just going to give me the same ballistics and terminal results as a round nose with a smaller meplat? If you had to choose a short hardcast bullet for your deer hunting needs, under 180 grains in weight, what would be your choice in nose design?
 
My first choice would be to hunt in another state. These regulations were put in place to stop all hunting anyway, take your $$ elsewhere. I don’t think your bullet idea will be that effective, part of the advantage of a soft lead ball or bullet is the reason it will expand and leave a big hole for blood to leak out. A hard cast may not do that, leaving you a hard tracking job.
 
Folks shoot WFN boollits with excellent accuracy well pass 50 yards all the time. I'm one of those folks, too. 1/48" twist isn't picky, either. Mine shoots patched round balls and longer conicals with equal results on paper. You should be good with what you choose to do.

And though the powers that be aren't hunting friendly, I completely understand that going to another state to pursue your quarry isn't always feasible either. I applaud your efforts to go hinder to enjoy what you have at hand to do. Keep us appraised of your results. Most of us are rooting for your success. Myself included.
 
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My first choice would be to hunt in another state. These regulations were put in place to stop all hunting anyway, take your $$ elsewhere. I don’t think your bullet idea will be that effective, part of the advantage of a soft lead ball or bullet is the reason it will expand and leave a big hole for blood to leak out. A hard cast may not do that, leaving you a hard tracking job.
Plenty of folks do that. I can tell you first hand that a lead free .480 is plenty to take down a blacktail. I've only had bang-flops thus far on deer. On javelina, a heart shot with hardcast .480 was solid. One got away last year and I'm guessing the hit wasn't good (my fault, not the ball's).
 
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Folks shoot WFN boollits with excellent accuracy well pass 50 yards all the time. I'm one of those folks, too. 1/48" twist isn't picky, either. Mine shoots patched round balls and longer conicals with equal results on paper. You should be good with what you choose to do.
With a bullet that's so hard as to not obturate, I'm finding it extremely picky. All the things that can be done with cast bullets require some kind of ability to deform at the base, including hollow bases, paper patching, etc. There aren't many commercial lead free options for .45s. With their hollow base, Thor conicals are awesome as far as accuracy is concerned (expansion is hit/miss). I took a nice buck back in 2020 with a Thor. But they don't come in .45s or any caliber except .50. Cloth patching an undersized bullet has been promising, if not downright surprising. But the length matters a lot. 0.7" is shootable but not stable. 0.6" is better but, depending on the speed, gets really wonky out at 100 yards because, I figure, it's going transonic. I jumped the gun and ordered a custom mould & requested a length not exceeding 0.55". It will be a while yet before they start making it so still time to make adjustments if somebody has some input.

I didn't mention that I've tried .452s but Pedersoli made this one a bit large -- it's .454 on the lands and .465 on the grooves. So .452s slip right down the bore. Knurled, they barely touch the rifling. .458s are too big to fit down the bore so that puts me at .456ish (.454 mould with 0.002" expansion after cooling). But it still needs something behind the bullet to seal (no obturation) and a full-length sizer to make sure that the bullet doesn't exceed .456 in diameter. The cloth patched .430s are just plain easier to deal with for now. But give me time and I may opt for some kind of bullet-to-bore option.
 
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This is the basic idea of the mould I ordered. I requested 0.435" diameter (neg tolerance), <0.55" Long, anything under 200 grains in lead is fine. I'm guessing it will be around 160-170ish grains in lead & 140-150ish in the Rotometals alloy. Meplat is 0.3". Weight-wise, that's right on-par with .480 round ball.
 

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Look into powder coating the slugs. They will oversize tge smaller conicals and still be able to lube the grooves to keep the fouling soft. Castboolits.gunloads.com can steer you in the right direction.
 
I’m afraid California will ban non expanding solids to further frustrate hunters in that state. I met two new neighbors from California recently, they moved in part because of the anti hunting crap.
 
Please keep us posted on your research in case one day the feds criminalize all lead possession. I’m interested. And you may have a money making opportunity.
 
I know this doesn't answer the OPs question, and I also know that I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but if I really wanted to blackpowder hunt in California while abiding by the law, I'd probably wind up going with a modern unmentionable rifle. You can still go with iron sights. With irons, i wouldn't call it cheating since the state is kind of forcing your hand, and honestly I'm no better shooting my .30-30 w/ irons than I am my Hawken at 50-75 yds.
 
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Due to the lead free regs here in CA, I'm working on a cast bullet design with the Rotometals lead free alloy for my .45 with a 1:48 twist. While roundball shoots fine, the alloy casts at only 109 grains in .440. I'm sure that would still punch through a deer. But it's so light that I doubt how effective it would be much past about 50 yards -- especially if I hit bone.

Folks with .40 caliber rifles take white tail without worries out to 75 yards and they are shooting a .390 all lead bullet weighing 89 grains. You would be shooting a sphere 22% larger in diameter, 29% heavier, and harder. So I'd expect it to go deeper, and smash through bone better, than those using a .40 caliber rifle.

This is the basic idea of the mould I ordered. I requested 0.435" diameter (neg tolerance), <0.55" Long, anything under 200 grains in lead is fine. I'm guessing it will be around 160-170ish grains in lead & 140-150ish in the Rotometals alloy. Meplat is 0.3". Weight-wise, that's right on-par with .480 round ball.

If you think you need such, I think you have answered your question. It's heavier than a .440 round ball, and harder so penetration will be quite good. The only question would be working up an accurate load. I'd use 3Fg for the main charge, and start with 45-50 grains and work up to an accurate load. IF you were out here in Maryland, the DNR sets an arbitrary minimum of 60 grains of powder, regardless of the caliber of the long gun for a deer load. IF you're still unsure, you might chronograph the most accurate load. I think you will find that you have more than enough rifle to get the job done

LD
 
I know this doesn't answer the OPs question, and I also know that I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but if I really wanted to blackpowder hunt in California while abiding by the law, I'd probably wind up going with a modern unmentionable rifle. You can still go with iron sights. With irons, i wouldn't call it cheating since the state is kind of forcing your hand, and honestly I'm no better shooting my .30-30 w/ irons than I am my Hawken at 50-75 yds.
This is exactly what I would do! If you want to hunt in Cali you can’t have the cake and eat it too!!
 
I know this doesn't answer the OPs question, and I also know that I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but if I really wanted to blackpowder hunt in California while abiding by the law, I'd probably wind up going with a modern unmentionable rifle. You can still go with iron sights. With irons, i wouldn't call it cheating since the state is kind of forcing your hand, and honestly I'm no better shooting my .30-30 w/ irons than I am my Hawken at 50-75 yds.
I suspect that is partly why there aren’t many traditionalists out here. Yes, a faster twist barrel, a bigger caliber ball, all make things simpler. But what’s the fun in that ;)

LD, my understanding was that .40s were marginal at best and probably best within 25-30 yards where velocity can still allow for some expansion. I’ve only taken deer & javelina with .50s. So I certainly can’t speak from experience there. Are folks using .40s out that far with regularity? Or is it just those exceptional hunters or shooters among us?
 
I agree. I do own an unmentionable, but haven't shot it in years. Haven't even taken it out of the closet in years! It's absolutely not as fun, and really no less expensive to shoot than any of my other modern rifles. Yet I shoot my traditional rifles all the time, and they kill deer just fine. And I'm sure you're right....CA doesn't want us lead slingers.

I suspect that is partly why there aren’t many traditionalists out here. Yes, a faster twist barrel, a bigger caliber ball, all make things simpler. But what’s the fun in that ;)
 
I agree. I do own an unmentionable, but haven't shot it in years. Haven't even taken it out of the closet in years! It's absolutely not as fun, and really no less expensive to shoot than any of my other modern rifles. Yet I shoot my traditional rifles all the time, and they kill deer just fine. And I'm sure you're right....CA doesn't want us lead slingers.
I had a compound bow as a kid. Later, as an adult, I got really into traditional bows and still prefer it. I picked up a compound again last year and it sapped so much love out of archery for me. It’s just not the same. Just holding my longbow gives me good vibes — more so than actually shooting a modern bow. I’ll still hunt with the compound this year. But I just don’t have the same desire to shoot it. Modern stuff is sort of like that for me.
 
Yep. I do look at hunting a little differently though. Real world, for us non rich dudes, hunting is hard, and there are no guarantees you'll be successful. I've eaten tag soup enough to know, but I've also taken many deer. If im going to take off vacation time, spend a bunch of money, get up at 4:30am every day for a week dealing with the elements 11hrs a day, I do my level best to be successful. I'm going to enjoy myself regardless because it's something I love doing and have done for decades, but I enjoy it a little more when I know I'll have a full freezer. I'm picky about shot placement and quick, ethical kills. In all my years, I've only failed to recover one deer. My fault, learned from it. You're right by asking about terminal ballistics/bullet performance here, but I dont want any doubt that when I pull the trigger, that I'll be field dressing it shortly. And in your unique circumstance, I'd use a modern or hunt another state first. If you worked up a hardcast load for a sidelock, maybe try it out hog hunting first???
 
Yep. I do look at hunting a little differently though. Real world, for us non rich dudes, hunting is hard, and there are no guarantees you'll be successful. I've eaten tag soup enough to know, but I've also taken many deer. If im going to take off vacation time, spend a bunch of money, get up at 4:30am every day for a week dealing with the elements 11hrs a day, I do my level best to be successful. I'm going to enjoy myself regardless because it's something I love doing and have done for decades, but I enjoy it a little more when I know I'll have a full freezer. I'm picky about shot placement and quick, ethical kills. In all my years, I've only failed to recover one deer. My fault, learned from it. You're right by asking about terminal ballistics/bullet performance here, but I dont want any doubt that when I pull the trigger, that I'll be field dressing it shortly. And in your unique circumstance, I'd use a modern or hunt another state first. If you worked up a hardcast load for a sidelock, maybe try it out hog hunting first???
I’ve thought about trying it out on a hog first. But hogs, while they’re usually easier hunts, are about $1k a pop as they’re almost exclusively private, guided trips.
 


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