Thanks, Rifle Shoppe! Convex sideplate for Pedersoli Bess

[schizuki]

About, I dunno, ten years ago I wrote to The Rifle Shoppe to see if they would consider making a drop-in convex sideplate for Pedersoli Besses for those of us who wanted to make ours look more like an older pattern. Lo and behold, I was browsing their site and saw under the New Products section a rounded sideplate for the Navy Arms Brown Bess. Now, that could have meant either the Pedersoli or the Miroku, but I took a chance and ordered one two weeks ago. Just got it today, and it looks like it could be a drop-in fit. There are two casting gates on the back preventing me from lining it up on the old flat sideplate, but it looks good just eyeballing it. As long as there isn't casting shrinkage, I'm feeling pretty optimistic. Should be able to clean it up and install it next week.

Between that and polishing off the lock markings, I think I'll have a pretty reasonable facsimile of a commercial musket that's not inappropriate for F&I War.

 

[Cruzatte]

hotoSmile:

 

[schizuki]

I've removed one of the casting gates. I left the other one on for now to give my drill vise something to grab when I drill out and countersink the bolt holes. I think that forward hole may end up requiring some inletting.

 

[schizuki]

OK, I just pulled the old sideplate and checked a little closer. This is definitely NOT drop-in and will require inletting all around. The good thing is that there shouldn't be any gaps where the old inletting is.

Looks like I need to buy an inletting chisel and learn a new skill...

 

[Pete G]

Give some serious thought to using a scraper instead of a chisel.

 

[schizuki]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Michael Chambers]

Some careful filing and polishing of the new side plate may save you some inletting work.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I was going to say, you chose inletting over fitting the brass to the existing location? I have no opinion on either, just wondering, as I have contemplated getting one of those as well for my factory bess.

LD

 

[Artificer]

Don't know if you have thought of this and if so, then please ignore this post.

Are you absolutely SURE the spotted holes in the casting will align with the holes on the lock plate? I would almost bet they won't, but I could be mistaken. If the holes are not aligned and you mount the casting in the stock, then the only recourse would be to drill out the holes in the side plate until the Side Plate Screws will go through it, the stock, and align with the lock. That can get downright messy, and sloppy looking, and none too easy.

OK, I was curious, so I spent a few minutes with my Pedersoli Bess measuring screws and holes and how I would go about doing this job. It may be of some use for you.

What you may want to do is inlet the new Side Plate into the stock before you do anything else.

Get a thin piece of scrap wood or metal that will go over the center of the lock mortise and hang out beyond it so it will lay on/over the mortise, but not cover the screw holes through the stock. A piece of leather should also go between the stock and this wood or metal piece so the edges of the lock plate mortise are not damaged. You want to drill holes through the thin piece of wood (or metal) and the leather so the appropriate size drill bit will easily go through it. This thin piece of wood/metal and the leather will act as a cushion for the wood around the mortise and as a “stop” to ensure the chuck on your hand drill does not damage the stock.

Then use leather lacing or maybe small cotton rope wound around the center of the side plate and around the other side of the stock, leather and scrap wood piece for a few wraps and then tie it off. This should hold the side plate securely.

I just measured the diameter of the side plate screws on my Pedersoli Bess and they are .231". The holes through the lock and my current side plate are a good deal larger, so the screws do not bind in the wood and so they can easily align with the lock plate.

At this point I reasoned that many folks will not have a set of Metric Drill Bits. So I tried a 1/4 inch drill bit and it is loose in the holes in the side plate and the stock. I'm just guessing, but I think these holes were drilled with a .65 MM drill bit (.0256"), from some charts I looked up. OK, so I tried a 17/64" (.2656") drill bit and found it would go through the side plate holes but NOT through the holes in the stock. My idea would be to use the already existing holes in the stock as “drilling guides” for the holes you need to drill in the new cast side plate. So in my case, I would buy an individual 6.5mm drill bit or get a small set of drill bits that has a drill bit of this size.

I would then lightly oil the 6.5mm drill bit and put the leather piece and the thin piece of the wood/metal (with the holes in them) over the lock mortise and drill through the stock holes and through the newly inletted side plate. This should align the holes in your side plate with the holes in the stock and the threaded holes in the lock plate.

I would then take the leather lace or rope wrapping off the stock and try the Side Lock Bolts through the new side plate and stock and into the lock. If they align, you are done. If not, you may need to drill the holes in the side plate out with a 17/64” drill bit, BUT MAKE SURE you drill these larger holes AFTER you take the side plate OFF of the stock. You would not want to drill the holes through the stock that much larger.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

I would then lightly oil the 6.5mm drill bit and put the leather piece and the thin piece of the wood/metal (with the holes in them) over the lock mortise and drill through the stock holes and through the newly inletted side plate. This should align the holes in your side plate with the holes in the stock and the threaded holes in the lock plate.

Gus

Not entirely sure if I made this clear. You want to drill FROM the lock side of the stock into the stock and into/through the newly inletted side plate.

 

[schizuki]

Really appreciate all of the tips, fellas!

My plan was to use the original flat sideplate as a template for the new holes. After drilling, I'd place the new plate over the old inlet, put the lockbolts through to locate it properly, then trace the outline of the plate for the new inlet.

Filing the new plate down to the original inlet's dimension isn't an option. The convex plate is a little larger all around, especially around the lockbolt holes, since they're countersunk (the lockbolt heads completely cover the flat sideplate in that area, and none of the plate extends past the bolt heads. Kind of hard to describe, so here are some pics of my Pedersoli with the new plate next to it, and a TotW '46 Bess for comparison.)





Of course, enlarging the inlet will let me get rid of some of those factory inletting flaws... :grin:

 

[Artificer]

Really appreciate all of the tips, fellas!

My plan was to use the original flat sideplate as a template for the new holes. After drilling, I'd place the new plate over the old inlet, put the lockbolts through to locate it properly, then trace the outline of the plate for the new inlet.

That may work, but the side plate screws may or will wind up too short for the threads to engage the threads in the lock plate. If you are going to do it that way, I would suggest initually drilling the holes through the new side plate with either a letter "A" Size Drill Bit or 15/64" drill bit, as the holes they would drill are just large enough for the body of the screws to go through. This will better align the plate than larger holes that may/will allow more misalignment. Then you can open up the holes after you have the new side plate inletted.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

ACTUALLY GUS...., I was thinking I would get one of those, and install it in the stock without drilling for the lock bolts....THEN I'd take long, metric screws of the same pitch as the lock screws, and go from the outside of the lock plate as it rested in the stock..., through the correct holes. until the screws touched the new brass sideplate on its underside. A little dab of lipstick on the ends of the screws would leave a mark on the locations where the holes should be drilled on the underside of the new sideplate, so all would align when the sideplate was drilled. The heads of the proper lock bolts might be slightly off in relation to the new sideplate, but that saves a lot of time and worry with filling old lock bolt holes and drilling and tapping new ones, eh?

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

At least I think that would work.

:idunno:

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've removed one of the casting gates. I left the other one on for now to give my drill vise something to grab when I drill out and countersink the bolt holes. I think that forward hole may end up requiring some inletting.

I know this is really nitpicking, but since the lock bolts are flat, not tapered, the bolt holes need to be counterbored to provide a flat surface for the bolt to mate up to. You want the counterbore to be about half the height of the bolt head so the bolt protrudes a little bit above the side plate.

My process would be to not drill the bolt holes until the side plate is inlet. Then with the side plate installed, I would use a drill that is the size of the original hole. With the drill press, just touch the back of the side plate to mark the location to drill later. Drill the hole for the through bolt. Confirm that the side plate is matched to the bolts, then counter bore from the outside. You may have to grind the tip of your drill bit to make a flat face tip for counter boring. I think the end result will be more secure than countersinking and having that gap under the head of the lock bolt.

 

[Artificer]

ACTUALLY GUS...., I was thinking I would get one of those, and install it in the stock without drilling for the lock bolts....THEN I'd take long, metric screws of the same pitch as the lock screws, and go from the outside of the lock plate as it rested in the stock..., through the correct holes. until the screws touched the new brass sideplate on its underside. A little dab of lipstick on the ends of the screws would leave a mark on the locations where the holes should be drilled on the underside of the new sideplate, so all would align when the sideplate was drilled. The heads of the proper lock bolts might be slightly off in relation to the new sideplate, but that saves a lot of time and worry with filling old lock bolt holes and drilling and tapping new ones, eh?

LD

Dave,

I thought about doing what you wrote about, but to get a good "centered" impression on the threaded screws when they touch the inside of the replacement lock plate, you would need to turn one end of each to a point. Then as you put the lock plate in place, the screws would be screwed in just a bit short of the inside of the new lock plate, and still stick out from the outside of the lock plate. Then screw them up to just touching the inside of the lock plate. Then hold the new side plate as you whack the outside of the lock plate with a leather, rubber or other soft mallet. That would leave a point impression for the center of the side lock screw holes.

But, I figured the average person would (1.) not have access to or could easily find long threaded rod or screws to match the metric side lock screw threads and (2.)would not have access to a lathe.

Besides, the side lock screw holes through the stock are much larger than the diameter of the screws. This is why I suggested what I think may be the easiest thing of getting the correct size drill bit that drilled those holes and use it to align the holes in the side plate.

Also, I should point out again that the holes in the factory side plate are even larger than the "through holes" in the stock for the side lock screws. So after one drills the two clearance holes, it would be good to drill out JUST the holes in the new side plate with a 17/64" drill bit.

Gus