The 1792 Contract Rifle.....Lewis and Clark C. of D..

[Dphar]

Could they have used the latest British military rifle as a pattern, or at least as a rough guide? These were short rifles.

Short rifles were not unknown to US. In "Colonial Riflemen in The American Revolution" By Huddleston there is a quote from a journal entry that discusses the advantages of a larger bore rifle, this was a 47 caliber (45 to the pound) ball BTW, with a shorter barrel. Its in "Events of 1775" and the writer was John Joseph Henry.
He was so impressed with this rifle, which was shorter than the norm, that he though the military should adopt something similar. Something that did not come to pass in America until the advent of the "Short Rifle".
It is very interesting to me in that he infers the rifle he lost was smaller than 45 balls to the pound.

Dan

 

[tsmgguy]

The lock of rifle #15 is Harpers Ferry and 1803 marked. It does not match the size and shape of first pattern M1803 rifles, and is just one of several differences. The lock is longer and slimmer, and would not be interchangable with that of any of the three observed distinct m1803 patterns.

 

[Tumblernotch]

You have to remember that before a pattern can be accurately made, a drawing has to be made available for the pattern maker. A gunmaker can make a pattern or even a finished arm straight from an idea of what he wants to make, even I've done that. But for an armorer or especially a group of armorers to make a pattern piece, they have to know precisely what the designer wants in the way of specifications. If a guy tells a team verbally that he wants a short rifle of such and such a caliber and length, &c. and for them to make a pattern of that rifle, it's going to be a long time before it gets done because there are going to be disagreements and confusion because each one will have his own interpretation of what the designer wants, leading to numerous revisions of the finished product leading the designer to throw up his hands and say, "look you guys, just let me draw you a picture with all the dimensions and specs, then you make everything according to that drawing. If you have any questions I'll be in my office or in the tavern over on the Ferry Lot." There are a few drawings existing from later periods at the Ferry that have survived and I'm quite sure that there were earlier ones though there may not be any survivors.

There is a website about the expedition that gives a good deal of information about what might have been carried, though unfortunately it is a bit inconclusive. It still explains the strong possibility of the Corps not taking the 1803. Here's the URL:
http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=2356

 

[zampilot]

Nice info KR, good link. Considering Lewis' state of mind from the git go, it would be tough to infer what he was thinking, or why.

 

[Dphar]

You have to remember that before a pattern can be accurately made, a drawing has to be made available for the pattern maker. A gunmaker can make a pattern or even a finished arm straight from an idea of what he wants to make, even I've done that. But for an armorer or especially a group of armorers to make a pattern piece, they have to know precisely what the designer wants in the way of specifications. If a guy tells a team verbally that he wants a short rifle of such and such a caliber and length, &c. and for them to make a pattern of that rifle, it's going to be a long time before it gets done because there are going to be disagreements and confusion because each one will have his own interpretation of what the designer wants, leading to numerous revisions of the finished product leading the designer to throw up his hands and say, "look you guys, just let me draw you a picture with all the dimensions and specs, then you make everything according to that drawing. If you have any questions I'll be in my office or in the tavern over on the Ferry Lot." There are a few drawings existing from later periods at the Ferry that have survived and I'm quite sure that there were earlier ones though there may not be any survivors.

There is a website about the expedition that gives a good deal of information about what might have been carried, though unfortunately it is a bit inconclusive. It still explains the strong possibility of the Corps not taking the 1803. Here's the URL:
http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=2356

You are getting into 19th-20th century processes again.
How were they going to turn the "dimensions" into parts without precision measuring devices?
The lack of precision measuring devices was one key reason there were no truly interchangeable parts in the 18th and early 19th century.

Dan

 

[oreclan]

George D. Muller in American Military Shoulder Arms Volume 2 writes on page 125 that " The 'first issue' rifles were procured specifically to arm Wayne's legion. The second issue rifles were procured for the same reasons given for the 1794 U.S. musket contracts, the authorization to purchase arms abroad, and for the establishment of the national armories: to provide a reserve of rifles for the regular army, because a 1793 inventory showed the reserves of arms in U.S. arsenals to be dangerously low."
Ron Malmgren

 

[zampilot]

There is one chronology that states Lewis went from Washington to Harpers Ferry to St.Louis in July 1803, could the new short rifles have been ready? http://lewisandclark.org/?p=exp_timeline&n=landcexp