The Brown Bess in combat- how effective was it ?

[Artificer]

Soldiers (then and now) usually developed a fondness to their personal Arms, as Cuthbertson addressed on Page 92 of his "System for the Complete Interior Management and Oeconomy of a Battalion of Infantry" immediately following the FIW:

"Soldiers to such remarkable neatness, about every part of their appointments, not only gives employment to those hours, they otherwise must have (a circumstance alone quite worthy of consideration) but beyond all doubt encourages in them a kind of liking for those arms, which they are taught to take such care of."

https://books.google.com/books?id=1...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false
However, the Brown Bess had an elegance other period Military Arms did not have. Even if it was a bit inferior to the French Banded Muskets, it was certainly serviceable and more...well.... pretty. This inspires confidence in troops and that is highly important on the battlefield.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Good point.

Also, fixing and unfixing a triangular blade sharpened all the way down, would have severely cut up the soldiers' hands as well.

Gus

I always hold the socket when I fix or unfix my bayonet. But I wouldn't want it sharpened either.

 

[Artificer]

I always hold the socket when I fix or unfix my bayonet. But I wouldn't want it sharpened either.

I like my bayonet to tighten up in the last turn, so I have to use the shank and bottom part of the blade to get it to tighten down and then to initially loosen it.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

Many of the British troops were slight compared to more, shall we say, robust guys today. A hundred and twenty pound man five foot six tall ain’t your average SEAL. Although scared, angry about the death of a friend, whipped up to a frenzy by brave officers and sergeants I’m thinking a long thin bayonet on the end of that heavy musket being driven forward by that hundred and twenty pound guy whose muscles were trained by marching and drilling every day of his life with that heavy musket that long thin bayonet didn’t need to be sharp. I’m thinking a sapling sharpened with a hatchet tied on the end of that musket wielded by that slight British solder would have no trouble going through an enemies guts.

 

[Artificer]

Many of the British troops were slight compared to more, shall we say, robust guys today. A hundred and twenty pound man five foot six tall ain’t your average SEAL. Although scared, angry about the death of a friend, whipped up to a frenzy by brave officers and sergeants I’m thinking a long thin bayonet on the end of that heavy musket being driven forward by that hundred and twenty pound guy whose muscles were trained by marching and drilling every day of his life with that heavy musket that long thin bayonet didn’t need to be sharp. I’m thinking a sapling sharpened with a hatchet tied on the end of that musket wielded by that slight British solder would have no trouble going through an enemies guts.

Not trying to be overly morbid, but a triangular shaped bayonet blade was probably the best shape for a Long Land Musket. The overall length of the Bess, or other military arms of the day, really precluded using a bayonet that could slash. This goes back to LD's analogy of it being a spear. The sword and later knife bayonets did not come into use until military weapons got shorter.

Soldiers who wore "Cartridge Boxes," or what we call Belly Boxes, actually had some fairly good protection from getting stuck in the guts. Not easy to stick a bayonet through that. The triangular blade might skip off a breast bone or rib, but continuing to ram it home would often allow it to stick between the ribs or the arms or legs or even the throat, though the latter was not a good target to aim at, as it was too easy to miss.

However, since most every military musket of the day used a triangular bayonet, no military musket enjoyed an advantage in that regard.

Gus

 

[jdw276]

Not trying to be overly morbid, but a triangular shaped bayonet blade was probably the best shape for a Long Land Musket. The overall length of the Bess, or other military arms of the day, really precluded using a bayonet that could slash. This goes back to LD's analogy of it being a spear. The sword and later knife bayonets did not come into use until military weapons got shorter.

Soldiers who wore "Cartridge Boxes," or what we call Belly Boxes, actually had some fairly good protection from getting stuck in the guts. Not easy to stick a bayonet through that. The triangular blade might skip off a breast bone or rib, but continuing to ram it home would often allow it to stick between the ribs or the arms or legs or even the throat, though the latter was not a good target to aim at, as it was too easy to miss.

However, since most every military musket of the day used a triangular bayonet, no military musket enjoyed an advantage in that regard.

Gus

Thhe purpose of the triangle bayonet was to inflict a cut that the doctors could not sew up effectively to keep out infection. A slice is easy to suture, just like sewing. A triangle cut the corners pucker leaving holes for infection and bleeding.

 

[Artificer]

Thhe purpose of the triangle bayonet was to inflict a cut that the doctors could not sew up effectively to keep out infection. A slice is easy to suture, just like sewing. A triangle cut the corners pucker leaving holes for infection and bleeding.

I realize that was the result of most such stabbing wounds, but I've never found anything to support the idea that was the reason for choosing that kind of blade shape.

Rather, it was the most practical shape for the bayonet on the long barreled muskets of the 18th and 19th centuries.

Gus

 

[Tumbledown]

Triangular bayonets don't cut, they tear. Their wounds are almost impossible to close up effectively.

 

[jdw276]

I realize that was the result of most such stabbing wounds, but I've never found anything to support the idea that was the reason for choosing that kind of blade shape.

Rather, it was the most practical shape for the bayonet on the long barreled muskets of the 18th and 19th centuries.

Gus

I don't have any evidence that i could quote a source for etc. Either. However i have seen this reported several times on the history channel shows about various time periods. I know, tv like the internet, it has to be true correct?

 

[RAEDWALD]

The triangular bayonet was the strongest way to get a hole poked into a man in winter dress with leather accoutrements and with the metal of the day. The force a terrified squaddie can put into a bayonet on the end of a long heavy spear is huge and would easily bend a blade bayonet of the day. The triangular shape gave the metal extra stiffness. The wound dressing issue is incidental. George MacDonald Fraser in his wartime memoirs tells of his unit bayonet charging Japanese in Burma with their Indian made bayonets which bent in use. The same happened in Sudan in the 19th century with the Birmingham made bayonets proving to be poorly heat treated so bent or broke. The triangular bayonet was an engineering solution not a policy in itself.

 

[rdlowe]

Interesting discussion here. On the subject of the Bess bayonet, I strongly suspect the shape had more to do with ease of manufacture and durability than anything else. ‘Easy to make and hard to break’ is more plausible than ‘was designed to kill you by penetrative E. Coli’.

 

[Zonie]

The triangular bayonet shape also has the least material in it making it economical and light weight when compared with a similar length blade type bayonet.

 

[tenngun]

It’s simple physics. It’s easy to bend a square or a flat. Very hard to bend a triangle. This is why a Y is put on a post or half Y on the ends. Or the triangular bracing when you build a wall.

 

[Artificer]

The triangular bayonet was the strongest way to get a hole poked into a man in winter dress with leather accoutrements and with the metal of the day.

The triangular bayonet shape also has the least material in it making it economical and light weight when compared with a similar length blade type bayonet.

In the 1730's and for decades later, Steel was VERY expensive and hard to get good uniform alloy in quantity because it was made by the centuries old cementation process. In the mid late 1740's, Benjamin Huntsman developed a better and faster method called "Blister Steel," but it didn't take off in England at first. Instead, he sold a lot of the metal to France until British makers finally began working with it in the 1760's.

Most of the problems with early Bayonets and Early "Iron" (Steel) Rammers in Brown Besses was due to the poor or non uniform grade of the alloy in cementation made steel.

Only the blade and part of the Arm of the bayonet was made with steel. The arm "base" and socket were made from Iron, to keep costs down on 18th century British and much later American made bayonets.

Gus

 

[TNGhost]

Ran across this and thought some may find it interesting. A quick history of the Bess, its nomenclature,loading procedure and employment, along with some readings of actual battle encounters.