The Future of Traditional Muzzleloaders?

[Erwan]

The only thing currently keeping the USA from falling into the same sad state is our 2nd amendment to the constitution

When you see arms collections in order to disarm the populations by making them feel the fear of the police, you can wonder what will happen soon ...
In 1939 the government instituted disarmament of the people by waving the fear of arms and the police to make them volunteer to "rid" their so-called "illegal" weapons and I really do not believe that it is the best solution to sensitize people to go with old weapons, some of which are of great value ...
Until 1939, the port and detention of weapons were in the constitution, but in the meantime, there was the Second World War, and the decrees of the Daladier government (the name of the head of government of 1939). At the end of this war, these decrees have never been revised and now, it has become worse than worse: the government asks the people to give their arms coming from their grandfather or more. I don't think that is a good way for inciting the young generations to become shooters or hunters, black powder or not...
Google Translate isn't the best, but can maybe help you:
- Armes à feu. L'affluence dans les lieux de collecte pour se débarrasser des armes non déclarées embarrassantes
- Destruction d'armes patrimoniales : nos craintes se confirment – La Tribune de l'Art
Duplicity in order to ban weapons, and idem for black powder and everything...

 

[11th corps]

When I go tot the shooting range there is always a bunch of people that come over to see what I am shooting. Most of them have never seen anyone shoot a flintlock. There is interest when people are actually exposed to it. If you want to get people interested in muzzleloaders, go to a public shooting range. Bring some cool guns. Talk to people and people give it a try if they show interest.

My experience has been just the opposite. I have been a member of the local Conservation Club/shooting range for more then 25 years. When I do shoot my flintlocks and cap guns I have never had anyone come over to check out the smoke and boom. On top of that I have never seen anyone shooting a flintlock except me at the range.
Old and young shooters show up with the latest whiz bang smokeless guns in genuine plastic. They don't seem to care about traditional firearms.
I'm not a hunter, and I don't care to wear period clothing or a coon skin cap. But I do love to shoot my ml's.
But in the end the future is unpredictable. Maybe something will come along that sparks interest in m/l guns again like the Bi Centennial did in 1976.

 

[JamesT]

The lack of low end guns is symptomatic of the market, and the ML'ing niche in general. E.g.; If there was a (bigger) market for them there would be more of them. That said, there ARE imported guns (Indian, Spanish) that fill that niche. The thing is, that the market IS and always has been somewhat small compared to more modern stuff. That means that the line set-up costs have to be amortized over a smaller number of guns. The other thing that has taken away from the low-end traditional guns is the increasing popularity of in-lines.

That is, a large percentage of people get in to ML'ing in order to extend their hunting seasons, and are most interested in the most efficient way to do so---modern in-lines currently fill that niche. They often move from those guns to the more traditional guns as their knowledge, experience and financial means allows growth--- out of a matter of intellectual curiosity if for no other reason.

It's really just human nature. As people, it seems the older we get, the more interest we seem to naturally have in the past. Most genealogy research is sponsored by people 60+. Putting it another way; 20-somethings have much less interest in researching their long-passed relatives then they do in creating future ones!

Or, yet another way; as humans, we have most knowledge of, and are (most) naturally interested in ourselves, and "fitting in" with our contemporaries. When we are young, as we are a part of the future, we are interested in how we might interact with it and impact it. As we reach maturity, and become a part of the contemporary "movers and shakers" generation, so too our interest lies there. As we age, and reach senior status, so migrates our interests in, and our hierarchal standing AS a part of history.

So, interests in traditional ML'ing is going to naturally always going to be the primary purview of those most interested in history and the past, which is by human nature a more senior pursuit. I bet if you could somehow track the "median age of traditional ML'ers" over the last 50 years it wouldn't have changed a whole lot.

You nailed it

 

[Flint Striker]

I think interest is down due to the new generations just want everything as simple and compact as possible. Everything right there at hand. ML's too messy. Too tedious. Too much work.

I hear this a lot, but a lot of millennials get into brewing craft beer, making or refinishing old furniture, digging up one-off antiques to reuse in their homes, learning cast iron cooking or baking from scratch, etc. I think millennials are a strong untapped market for muzzleloaders frankly - because they like archaic, unique stuff and some of them have a little disposable income.

I’m late Gen X and I’m not really sure what we’re about anymore - we mostly just put our heads down during dismal economic conditions and tried to bulldoze through. Some combination of indifference and cynicism are our coping skills. It’s hit or miss what you’ll get with us. I’m not sure what the new generation is all about yet, and they probably aren’t either. But a lot of people have seen the impact of too much technology in their lives. Maybe some would welcome a weekend in a tent with a couple afternoons of flintlock shooting.

 

[Coinneach]

BP and the whole culture isn't going anywhere. It's healthy and alive and well.

Shhhhh, keep it under wraps the British are coming...

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I hear this a lot, but a lot of millennials get into brewing craft beer, making or refinishing old furniture, digging up one-off antiques to reuse in their homes, learning cast iron cooking or baking from scratch, etc. I think millennials are a strong untapped market for muzzleloaders frankly - because they like archaic, unique stuff and some of them have a little disposable income.

I’m late Gen X and I’m not really sure what we’re about anymore - we mostly just put our heads down during dismal economic conditions and tried to bulldoze through. Some combination of indifference and cynicism are our coping skills. It’s hit or miss what you’ll get with us. I’m not sure what the new generation is all about yet, and they probably aren’t either. But a lot of people have seen the impact of too much technology in their lives. Maybe some would welcome a weekend in a tent with a couple afternoons of flintlock shooting.

Good point from a Gen X. I like what you said. Me being a Boomer, my perspective is limited to the outside looking in and the fact that I'm isolated way up here in the mountains. I retired from the military in 2014. The older I got, the more of a mystery the younger troops were to me. With each generation, they had to be handled differently. Semper Fi.

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

I can't figure out how to start a new post I want to post pictures of a ml and ask questions. So far I can only figure out how to post on active thead

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I can't figure out how to start a new post I want to post pictures of a ml and ask questions. So far I can only figure out how to post on active thead

Hit 'Post Reply' The rest will come up.
Semper Fi.

 

[clayton c]

Young people generally have a lot less money than older generations did at each age point. With decreased availability of powder and less places to shoot for muzzleloaders, its a pretty big barrier to entry. If you are interested in firearms, for the price of a decent quality long rifle and accessories, you can get a Gucci ar-15, or top of the line any other type of gun, which goes bang multiple times, verse once. The literal bang for your buck makes it a hard decision for young folk.

I agree, furthermore IMO as far as the shooting public goes and muzzleloaders in particular, I think our generation's "heroes have always been cowboys" from the day we're exposed and raised on watching TV/Movies watching Davy Crocket and Daniel Boone and Gunsmoke type heroes. Some shooters went in other directions, while some splintered off and naturally furthered into historical aspects of recreational firearms, which strengthens a large part of interest into traditional muzzleloading. Today, young people's heroes are much different with generations raised on Rambo and Terminator and John Wick type influences, a much darker and colder aspect of firearms fascination than our traditional "honest cowboy" and historical interest of black powder firearms. We've always been influenced by trending media, it's always played an important role as an additional factor, along with other social environmental factors, influences our perceptions in life. Whether it's in books or radio or TV or movies, young people do have a much more difficult choices today. IMO.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

My experience has been just the opposite. I have been a member of the local Conservation Club/shooting range for more then 25 years. When I do shoot my flintlocks and cap guns I have never had anyone come over to check out the smoke and boom. On top of that I have never seen anyone shooting a flintlock except me at the range.
Old and young shooters show up with the latest whiz bang smokeless guns in genuine plastic. They don't seem to care about traditional firearms.
I'm not a hunter, and I don't care to wear period clothing or a coon skin cap. But I do love to shoot my ml's.
But in the end the future is unpredictable. Maybe something will come along that sparks interest in m/l guns again like the Bi Centennial did in 1976.

You are correct: folks just don't care about the old style guns anymore. Now before I get flamed for the "exceptions" out there companies quit building entry level traditional guns because people quit buying them. Our pursuit will disappear not from over-regulation, but from lack of interest.

 

[dave951]

You are correct: folks just don't care about the old style guns anymore. Now before I get flamed for the "exceptions" out there companies quit building entry level traditional guns because people quit buying them. Our pursuit will disappear not from over-regulation, but from lack of interest.

With that attitude, you have a self fulfilling prophecy. Younger folks don’t know what they don’t know. If they’re never exposed to it, how will they ever know?

Many here have the attitude that people should just be attracted to this hobby. The real issue is our educational system has blown right over large relevant parts of our history in favor of the narrative dejour.

 

[S.Kenton]

Looking at the skyrocketing prices of traditional muzzle-loaders and components -- especially non-specific replicas like the sadly discontinued T/C sidelocks and Ruger OAs -- plus the looming apocalypse of forcible civilian disarmament combined with unabated environmental disaster and the escalating likelihood of thermonuclear war, I suspect these alleged "relics" are more likely prophetic glimpses of our species' future arsenals than many of us are comfortable admitting. Especially flintlocks, which unlike percussion guns require nothing more technologically complex than 18th-century/earliest 19th-century village economies, which based on what archaeology tells us about previous societal collapses -- and that is what we are in fact facing -- is the highest level of technology likely to survive. Lest this sound extreme, note the near-total technological collapse that followed the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 CE; then remember that once the electricity is gone, all modern technology is dead -- this time (because of the exhaustion of the requisite natural resources) -- probably forever.

Your post makes me wanna start drinking again.. lol

 

[Omega Vision]

The world is a much better place with out all those low end guns being made.

If they shoot well and that's all the shooter can afford, then I'm fine with the low-end purchase.
It's exactly how I started in this sport and never had any regrets.

 

[cannonball1]

I have followed this thing called muzzleloading thru since 1972 and immediately it became my obsession. I made a lot of TC Hawken kits and sold them just because I enjoyed the woodwork. Then I started making different kinds of MLers (no kits just the best barrels, rough parts, and a stock blank with the most curly maple stocks I could find. I would make one shoot it and sell it. In the beginning the parts cost a little over $150.00. The barrels were Sharon, H&H, Green River, Green Mountain, Colerain, and Rice and some others. Now the parts cost nearly or over $1000.00. I am sure there are a lot of you who have done the same as I. I've put wire inlay on some, carved others, engraved some and checkered a few.

To the point. I've got 16 grandsons. All of them will have one of my guns. Two don't want anything to do with guns and I am sure will sell them. Two like to hunt the traditional way and who knows with the others. I am sure I have some professionals in the bunch, but now they are city kids and enjoy what city kids do. It is either cold or too hot out side, games on cell phones, sports, hiking, skiing, and that darn muzzleloading is a hassle. Have to learn how to load them, how to clean them. you get dirty and you don't just shoot a few shots, then put it in the closet to shoot another day. Finally, a lot of states like Utah includes the modern MLers in special hunts and it totally ruins the hunt. It is just other hunt to them with an unfair advantage. Just hate it.

There has got to be a real change in minds. The direction it is going I can see a lot of "Wall Hangers" in houses. Probably half of them will be shot once, never cleaned and the barrels ruined. Lets see what a generation brings and I know I am being real negative, but I have seen an example of what I am saying. Even after all the education and reminding I have two son-in-laws that even after a month of shooting their MLers, I made for them. had not cleaned their guns.

 

[RC61]

Wrong person....I didn't mention anything about funny looking clothes.

My apologies. I didn't follow the reply all the way through. I see the author of the comment now. Thanks.

 

[Ben Meyer]

Great post Cannonball1. Growing up(I'm 50) my best friend(still!) had a beautiful flintlock at his house, built by his grandpa for his mom. His grandpa built one for each of his kids and they were flat out works of art. That was the first ML I ever touched, the one that made me fond of them. Whether your grandkids use if in the deer woods or as over the mantle wall decor, building them each one is pretty darn cool.

 

[Trapper Scott]

I have followed this thing called muzzleloading thru since 1972 and immediately it became my obsession. I made a lot of TC Hawken kits and sold them just because I enjoyed the woodwork. Then I started making different kinds of MLers (no kits just the best barrels, rough parts, and a stock blank with the most curly maple stocks I could find. I would make one shoot it and sell it. In the beginning the parts cost a little over $150.00. The barrels were Sharon, H&H, Green River, Green Mountain, Colerain, and Rice and some others. Now the parts cost nearly or over $1000.00. I am sure there are a lot of you who have done the same as I. I've put wire inlay on some, carved others, engraved some and checkered a few.

To the point. I've got 16 grandsons. All of them will have one of my guns. Two don't want anything to do with guns and I am sure will sell them. Two like to hunt the traditional way and who knows with the others. I am sure I have some professionals in the bunch, but now they are city kids and enjoy what city kids do. It is either cold or too hot out side, games on cell phones, sports, hiking, skiing, and that darn muzzleloading is a hassle. Have to learn how to load them, how to clean them. you get dirty and you don't just shoot a few shots, then put it in the closet to shoot another day. Finally, a lot of states like Utah includes the modern MLers in special hunts and it totally ruins the hunt. It is just other hunt to them with an unfair advantage. Just hate it.

There has got to be a real change in minds. The direction it is going I can see a lot of "Wall Hangers" in houses. Probably half of them will be shot once, never cleaned and the barrels ruined. Lets see what a generation brings and I know I am being real negative, but I have seen an example of what I am saying. Even after all the education and reminding I have two son-in-laws that even after a month of shooting their MLers, I made for them. had not cleaned their guns.

I'm doing the same with my grandkids. I've built three so far with one more to go which should happen sometime in the spring. As far as what they do afterward is anyone's guess. I teach and let them shoot and clean them up, The only thing I told my wife was to not let them have any of my guns if they are acting stupid. Most go through a time in life when we don't do the smart thing but usually come around sooner or later.

 

[stephenprops1]

I have shot with my sons, brothers, sisters, nephews. nieces and friends. We shoot a variety of firearms. We have an annual family competition around the 4th of July. I usually supply most of the guns, ammunition and targets. I don't mind because it helps build interest. I gave my 16 years old nephew his first firearm this year, a 45 caliber percussion muzzleloading rifle. For the first month he had it he shot it every day.

 

[Widows Son]

Interesting food for thought.

When the muzzleloader era ended, there were some highly accurate rifles like Gibbs, Rigby, Whitworth, Kerr etc.. the technology had achieved its zenith. However….

If the breech loading era didn’t come and muzzleloading remained the predominant firearms technology, we would no doubt have arrived at guns with scopes and in-line ignition and pelletised black powder and sabot bullets.

I don’t like the modern in-line stuff whatsoever. I grudgingly admit they are capable of accuracy and ballistics that traditional side lock weapons will never achieve. To each their own.

All of us here have an appreciation of history and tradition and and as long as folks like us exist, the traditional side lock muzzleloader will exist.

There are many people around the world that are drawn to learn and use historical and traditional long bows and recurve bows, and that is much older technology than a muzzleloader.

 

[kyron4]

I can't figure out how to start a new post I want to post pictures of a ml and ask questions. So far I can only figure out how to post on active thead

Top right corner of forum "post thread" in an orange rectangle