The Future of Traditional Muzzleloaders?

[Black Dog]

Looking at the skyrocketing prices of traditional muzzle-loaders and components -- especially non-specific replicas like the sadly discontinued T/C sidelocks and Ruger OAs -- plus the looming apocalypse of forcible civilian disarmament combined with unabated environmental disaster and the escalating likelihood of thermonuclear war, I suspect these alleged "relics" are more likely prophetic glimpses of our species' future arsenals than many of us are comfortable admitting. Especially flintlocks, which unlike percussion guns require nothing more technologically complex than 18th-century/earliest 19th-century village economies, which based on what archaeology tells us about previous societal collapses -- and that is what we are in fact facing -- is the highest level of technology likely to survive. Lest this sound extreme, note the near-total technological collapse that followed the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 CE; then remember that once the electricity is gone, all modern technology is dead -- this time (because of the exhaustion of the requisite natural resources) -- probably forever.

 

[sheriff john]

One thing I found encouraging about the muzzle loading fraternity "back in the day" different from experiences in other shooting genres was the willingness to help each other out. Can't count the times when a muzzle loader had a problem at a match or on the range others were offering assistance. That wasn't always the case at some other types of shooting events.

In those early years, it wasn't unusual to see folks competing with a family heirloom (Dad's old hog rifle perhaps). Also, it wasn't unusual to see several people shooting the same gun or loaning theirs to another person. Sharing a tin of caps or powder, etc. Anyone who's seen the Alvin York movie will appreciate how it was when we started. That's "Traditional" to me. Fun.

 

[Hermit Tim]

I disagree....
I would like to see even more "low end" guns being built. New shooters can't find factory reasonably priced guns anywhere. If a new shooter gets involved with the hobby with a "low end" gun....they eventually will pick up a better gun if they stay interested. I don't know of anyone that forks out $1200.00 - $1500.00 for a custom gun unless they know exactly what they are looking for or has been shooting already.
I started out with a Tradition's Woodsman Hawken percussion rifle in 2013. They aren't worth much, probably $150.00-$175.00 here in KY.
The most expensive gun I own ( including a custom one ) cost me $700.00. ( or less. )

Agreed. I have a couple of pretty decent rifles but am hunting this year with a used $60 pawn shop special. It is a CVA sharpshooter. Super low end. And fast, light, accurate, and not too bad to look at. Low end guns have always had their place. Specially for bringing in new shooters who won't or can't shell out the big bucks.

 

[RC61]

BP and the whole culture isn't going anywhere. It's healthy and alive and well.

 

[1971fx]

There are many factors leading to the decline of muzzle loading firearms. Demand is down for traditional muzzleloaders as most young people's first exposure to "firearms" is through video games that promote the latest modern weapons which is what they seek out when looking for actual firearms. Cost of guns in general create a roadblock. I have purchased three modern guns this year and the total that i spent on them would not allow me to purchase one decent ML. (don't get me wrong, I have LOTS of both modern and muzzle loaders). Additionally many state regulations make it increasingly difficult for traditional black powder guns such as here in NY with the states regulations making it very difficult to find real black powder (even if there wasn't a shortage). There is the "woke" push to demean history if not rewrite it totally. Having been a teenager when the Bicentennial occurred and a fan of history it led me to purchasing my first muzzle loader, a TC Hawken followed by a couple of pistols. Ordering them via mail order catalog was the only way I could afford them on a paperboy's income. Here we are just a few years short of another big anniversary of the founding of this nation and I don't here anything being talked about to make it a special time. My hope is to save enough money next year to order two matching Kibler Colonial kits to make and present to my grandson's in 2026.

In 1976 I was a member of the Bayville blackpowder club . They held a live ammo target shoot on the waterfront with Long Island sound as the backstop. I don't think it will happen again

 

[RC61]

I took my nine year old daughter, deer hunting for her first time, l was using a flintlock smoothbore. Best hunt I ever had!

That's awesome. As I said before in another reply, I have seen am uptick with people ( in their 30's mostly) here in Jersey taking an interest in hunting with with flintlocks. Longer season plus there seems to be interest in connecting with the Traditions of America's past and the challenge of muzzleloaders. Just going by what I observe.

 

[Coinneach]

I don't think it's dying. I think where you see it is just changing. People are sharing how they enjoy the hobby on social media. Hershel House's group on Facebook alone has 22k members posting hourly. We have young people including my 11 year old son participating in hunting and shooting events. Young adults are getting into muzzleloader building.

Youth shoot this year. This is the future of the sport:
View attachment 181172

My son shooting a Fowler I built at Friendship:
View attachment 181174

Shooting his TC Seneca:
View attachment 181175

Here's a friend of mine that I got into muzzleloading this year and took him on his first deer hunt. He's hooked!
View attachment 181176
If you think it's dying go look at these groups on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/304562264191306/?ref=share
https://www.facebook.com/groups/523167064790655/?ref=share
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1645657645749755/?ref=share
https://www.facebook.com/groups/145990786160105/?ref=share
There is still a very strong interest in our sport. It's not in it's hay day but definitely not going to die off because TC stopped making side locks. That's my 2 cents from where I stand. It's all perception but I see it carrying on.

Good man influencing others to try ML's, I think one of the key elements is what you (and I ) are doing, Start within our own family, if we all took that approach then we're already providing our replacements.

My Son (34) got his first taste of Black Powder smoke when he was 5 years old, my Grandson's 8 now and keen as mustard.

 

[pajeepman]

There is nothing an ml does well.

I don't know. Every time click, flash, boom happens I get a big smile. So I think they induce smiles pretty darn good.

 

[Art Caputo]

IMO, much like Traditional archery, traditional muzzleloading will continue to be a shrinking niche market. Lots of factors are likely driving this. The continued shrinkage in the number of hunters and accessible hunting land, a younger generation that is driven to simplicity/efficiency vs skill development to achieve fast results, and, continually expanding restrictions on lead and black powder. Above all else, the historical aspects that drive the youth towards the admiration of the black powder era continue to be eliminated/reduced from the early teaching process. Unlike the older generations, there is very little stimulation for the glamour of the era, or development of the imagination…..A very necessary ingredient for our sport.

 

[dave951]

IMO, much like Traditional archery, traditional muzzleloading will continue to be a shrinking niche market. Lots of factors are likely driving this. The continued shrinkage in the number of hunters and accessible hunting land, a younger generation that is driven to simplicity/efficiency vs skill development to achieve fast results, and, continually expanding restrictions on lead and black powder. Above all else, the historical aspects that drive the youth towards the admiration of the black powder era continue to be eliminated/reduced from the early teaching process. Unlike the older generations, there is very little stimulation for the glamour of the era, or development of the imagination…..A very necessary ingredient for our sport.

And if you do nothing to counteract it, then it will happen. I choose to be proactive and push back against it whenever and wherever I can.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Well, I'm a builder and I'm always backed up with orders. The only shrinkage I see is trying to get parts. I'm having to go back to the old days where I made them myself. On the other hand, If Biden and the left have their way, smoke poles will be the only hunter's option, and so will the prices. The ol' supply and demand trap. Semper Fi.

 

[TexiKan]

I have 'given' away six or seven guns to friends and family. They look very nice hanging on the wall or in gun cabinets. We went to a rendezvous a few years ago, about 100 miles away; the first person who spoke to us was critical of Betty's leather dress. It did not meet his standards. There was very little shooting, lots of gab and many vendors. It was disappointing to say the least.

I have addressed the "give away" concept a few times when this topic comes up. Some how there is a general perception that we are promoting the hobby to the young by giving them free stuff--they shoot free and have no investment whatsoever in the hobby. Of course they will like it! And then...and then we stop encouraging and promoting. I have been in the marketing business for years and have seen minimal and less than expected results from the give away concepts. Yup. I had to grin when you said the rifles are wall hangers. Then you get all of those who criticize our attempts to look period correct. Here we go again.

Yes, there may be a couple of relatives who stick with the hobby but compare their numbers with the retention of the large group initially involved. But we continue to do the same type of one time free shooting.... Go figure.

 

[user 53891]

You have to be pretty nerdy to get in to ml and stay there. If you’re in to living history or you shoot traditional but have no interest in funny looking clothes and sleeping in a tent it’s still a nerdy occupation.
Model railroads or model aircraft, all the same. Home pottery or home made beer, just doesn’t get a lot of interest in the general population
And we have had over a century of newest is better. Everything about ml is primitive, even for in lines. There is nothing an ml does well.

Ya ever hear of a hobby?

 

[user 53891]

I totally agree as well with the notion that lower priced guns are a good thing. I have a pretty nice flintlock but it's nothing compared to some of the beautiful rifles I've seen. FWIW, the gun I'll be shooting this weekend is a 1985 Charles Daly/Investarms Hawken I bought 5 yrs ago for $210 at Conner Prairie. Hardly a work of art! But it's a SHOOTER! I have just as much fun taking it for a day on the range as I would any other rifle.

Muzzleloading should not HAVE to be expensive!

Neither should automobiles, but, they are.

 

[user 53891]

I have addressed the "give away" concept a few times when this topic comes up. Some how there is a general perception that we are promoting the hobby to the young by giving them free stuff--they shoot free and have no investment whatsoever in the hobby. Of course they will like it! And then...and then we stop encouraging and promoting. I have been in the marketing business for years and have seen minimal and less than expected results from the give away concepts. Yup. I had to grin when you said the rifles are wall hangers. Then you get all of those who criticize our attempts to look period correct. Here we go again.

Yes, there may be a couple of relatives who stick with the hobby but compare their numbers with the retention of the large group initially involved. But we continue to do the same type of one time free shooting.... Go figure.

Correct sir, when things are given for free, the tendency is to leave it in disrepair and expect more for free!! Just take a look at the hood.....or the res.....

 

[Old-Duckman]

I would think that as long as there are potential buyers that there will be some persons, person or businesses that will produce to satisfy the needs.

When “they” take our guns away BP firearms would suddenly become more desirable. I hope that day is after I’m taking a dirt nap but I sure wouldn’t bet on it!

 

[user 53891]

I would think that as long as there are potential buyers that there will be some persons, person or businesses that will produce to satisfy the needs.

When “they” take our guns away BP firearms would suddenly become more desirable. I hope that day is after I’m taking a dirt nap but I sure wouldn’t bet on it!

"They" won't stop at firearms. It is a shame that the bravery shown by those men and women in 1776, is now reflected in pure cowardice in 2022.

 

[Shadowalker164]

You have to be pretty nerdy to get in to ml and stay there. If you’re in to living history or you shoot traditional but have no interest in funny looking clothes and sleeping in a tent it’s still a nerdy occupation.
Model railroads or model aircraft, all the same. Home pottery or home made beer, just doesn’t get a lot of interest in the general population
And we have had over a century of newest is better. Everything about ml is primitive, even for in lines. There is nothing an ml does well.

Nerdy, I prefer creative anachronism! I’m not worried about the future of muzzleloading, in 300 years there will be smoke poles along side whatever the masses are shooting then. Phasers maybe they are just too cool!

 

[tenngun]

Ya ever hear of a hobby?

Yup,
How many folks though have you let shoot ol’smokee and they’ve said ‘ that’s neat’ and went out and got one
I sew my own kit, make wooden ship models and follow cooking on you tube. This is a hobby, and we have too much fun. When I’m not at an event or in the tall timber I’m thinking about it.
But….we’re a small niche
I recall those heady days when my Black Powder report would come in. And all the companies that offered goods, where have they all gone…. Long time passing
I am encouraged when I see young at an event, but the grey beards sure outnumber them

 

[user 31257]

There’s such a high percentage of traditional shooters that are “well aged” that there’s no way it won’t decline, but it won’t go away. The only place I ever cross paths with traditional shooters is at primitive biathlons and while there are a handful of kids and women, the majority are 65+.