The LIES and confusion of Tung Oil wood finish

[wiscoaster]

...... It is all about application not the finish. .....

Exactly. Why I said "if just left to dry and cure". Which I think, based on many posts read here, is what many people do. And why they end up with a less than pleasing finish. And yet .... as I also said, "excess sheen is easily dealt with." Either by application method, or after drying and curing, by sheen moderation. One can knock the sheen back if too shiny, but one can't easily increase sheen without some serious elbow grease burnishing and polishing, and then only to a marginal degree. And those reasons, among others, why I'd prefer using a polymerized finish. I've been playing with Howard's products as a final coat/sheen moderation step, and I think shows some promise for gun stock use.

 

[LME]

Hi,
Under no circumstances use raw tung oil or raw linseed oil on any gun stock. If you want to use raw or pure tung oil, mix it with spar varnish or just as good, polyurethane varnish. However, POLYMERIZED tung oil works just as well and dries quickly and does not take months to dry. Notice the word POLYMERIZED. It means the oil was heat treated and mixed with solvents. IT IS NOT RAW TUNG OIL. If the container does not say POLYMERIZED somewhere it is not POLYMERIZED. Tru Oil, loved by so many is simply POLYMERIZED linseed oil mixed with solvents. That is why it dries so fast. Polymerized tung oil will dry fast and hard and offers a tough water resistant finish.

Here is a gun with low gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil.

I showed no guns with high gloss finish. The others were medium gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil. You can have it both ways because if you add 25% turps or mineral spirits to medium sheen SW polymerized tung oil, you get low sheen SW polymerized tung oil. Yes, 18th century guns were usually finished with a linseed oil based varnish that mixed the oil with resins (copal) to dry it faster and give it a harder surface. They were not finished with raw linseed oil. No gunsmith could afford to use a finish that took months to dry or required weeks of hand rubbing. These were tradesmen needing to get paid and make a living not hobbyists.

dave

Nice work! I don't see a glaring shine ? LOL! Your finish is what I desire on most of my work!

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Tung Oil is water proof and doesn't darken with age. It is a good finish but drying time for full protection is around twenty to 30 days. or so depending on your climate. Tung Oil can be touched up if need be without any major concern nor work. I really like this factor! The only down side I have witnessed is it isn't very durable. I have use a lot of it and this is the only part I am not happy with. I see no problem using it on a rifle stock if one is careful in handling the rifle. If you are not accustom to using it I would suggest not using pure Tung Oil. Also multiple thin coats wiped off Is what I find does best for me.I have found if you flood it on your work it can become a long wait to dry even though you wipe it off.

Thank you for this opinion from your experience

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

And those reasons, among others, why I'd prefer using a polymerized finish. I've been playing with Howard's products as a final coat/sheen moderation step, and I think shows some promise for gun stock use.

I really like Howard’s products

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Hi,
Under no circumstances use raw tung oil or raw linseed oil on any gun stock. If you want to use raw or pure tung oil, mix it with spar varnish or just as good, polyurethane varnish. However, POLYMERIZED tung oil works just as well and dries quickly and does not take months to dry. Notice the word POLYMERIZED. It means the oil was heat treated and mixed with solvents. IT IS NOT RAW TUNG OIL. If the container does not say POLYMERIZED somewhere it is not POLYMERIZED. Tru Oil, loved by so many is simply POLYMERIZED linseed oil mixed with solvents. That is why it dries so fast. Polymerized tung oil will dry fast and hard and offers a tough water resistant finish.

Here is a gun with low gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil.

I showed no guns with high gloss finish. The others were medium gloss POLYMERIZED tung oil. You can have it both ways because if you add 25% turps or mineral spirits to medium sheen SW polymerized tung oil, you get low sheen SW polymerized tung oil. Yes, 18th century guns were usually finished with a linseed oil based varnish that mixed the oil with resins (copal) to dry it faster and give it a harder surface. They were not finished with raw linseed oil. No gunsmith could afford to use a finish that took months to dry or required weeks of hand rubbing. These were tradesmen needing to get paid and make a living not hobbyists.

dave

Dave, you caught my error. After I hit the post button I realized that gloss was not an example. My bad. Ok. I want this to come out really well without guessing what went wrong if it does with my own brew. So, no more wavering. I’m going to order the Sutherland Welles medium, allowing shine adjustment. To be continued.

 

[wiscoaster]

.....To be continued.

Be sure to let us know how you come out.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Be sure to let us know how you come out.

I’m committed. I just ordered the Sutherland product.

 

[Nor Cal Mikie]

LOL! I think there is a story that Hacker Martin mixed up varnishes made with some sort of fish oil because it was cheap and available. Supposedly, you can still smell the oil in the stocks.

dave

Bet his Cats loved it too.

 

[FlinterNick]

Hi Wiscoaster,
Tru-Oil is a polymerized oil (linseed) and polymerized tung oil can acquire a glossy hard brittle look if you build it up. It is all about application not the finish. Minwax "Tung Oil Finish" has no tung oil. It may have some derivatives made from tung oil but no oil. Neither does Formby's tung oil finish. They are both wiping varnishes meaning they are applied with rag or brush, let sit for a few minutes, and then all excess wiped off. They do not penetrate very deeply (really no finish does) but are still good finishes. I used Formby's on a couple of guns years ago and the results were fine. It was Kit Ravenshear's go to finish for everything.

dave

I used to use formby’s when it was available, good stuff, great for touch ups.

I’ve since switched to Mo-Hawk bar-top varnish, it can be cut rather easily and is very durable.

 

[FlinterNick]

Tru-Oil and Minwax Tung Oil Finish are too shiny for a vintage-look gunstock if just left to dry and cure. Excess sheen is easily dealt with. Too little sheen is not. Therefore I'd rather use a polymerized oil finish because it's faster and its level of sheen can be moderated and the end result is the same.

Tru oil is a polymerizing finish. It doesn’t have to be shinny, try boning the finish to the stock, its makes a world of a difference for an original appearance.

 

[FlinterNick]

I’ve read here that original long guns were sealed with varnish. For my argument, that’s good news. I really don’t want to disappoint my friend who gifted me this rifle, but if I can argue that historical fact if true it’s a win win. Can anyone confirm this?

from my understanding based on research, each gunshop had their formula that was cooked. Many of these formulas have a lot of similarities but essentially its all based on what was available at the time, take something like linseed oil, bees wax, and pine Rosen and mix it with alchole and water and cook it at a moderate temperature, and you have a type of varnish. But essentially each shop had their own formula.

But none o f them (I’m generalizing here) were as durable as what’s available to us today, even tried and true productions are manufactured to be more durable.

 

[David Veale]

Hi,
Under no circumstances use raw tung oil or raw linseed oil on any gun stock. If you want to use raw or pure tung oil, mix it with spar varnish or just as good, polyurethane varnish. However, POLYMERIZED tung oil works just as well and dries quickly and does not take months to dry. Notice the word POLYMERIZED. It means the oil was heat treated and mixed with solvents. IT IS NOT RAW TUNG OIL. If the container does not say POLYMERIZED somewhere it is not POLYMERIZED. Tru Oil, loved by so many is simply POLYMERIZED linseed oil mixed with solvents. That is why it dries so fast. Polymerized tung oil will dry fast and hard and offers a tough water resistant finish.

Maybe I'm out in left field, but my understanding is that the polymerization process is what hardens a drying oil like linseed or tung. A finish would not be polymerized until it's applied to the wood, though I think most finishing oils are considered polymers (long chain molecules). "Drying" agents (like japan dryer) are simply catalysts that speed up the polymerization process, and are the main difference between "raw" oils and "boiled" linseed oil or varnishes.

I regularly use raw linseed oil on woodenware for eating utensils (the hardeners in "boiled" linseed oil are somewhat toxic). It does harden/polymerize, but can take weeks or even months to do so. I don't see any reason to use it on a gunstock, and would also recommend against it in that application. Boiled linseed oil, with it's hardening agents can take a few days to harden -- and remains somewhat soft and rubbery for quite a long time. Sunlight will speed that up though.

My absolute favorite is pure raw tung oil, both because it's non-toxic as well as the fact that it produces a harder surface, builds quicker (more like a varnish), and also hardens very quickly if placed in direct sunlight. I've used it on furniture where the drying time was about an hour when I set it out in the sunlight -- which is dramatically better than BLO. It does harden into a glossier finish, but that's easily removed with a little steel wool if you don't like that. I can't see what advantage would be gained through mixing tung oil with varnish or polyurethane. Perhaps the drying agents would hasten hardening time if it's not being exposed to sunlight?

I know that walnut oil is also a drying oil (and can be purchased at a grocery store). I've never tried it though. Anyone here have any experience with it, or know how it compares to linseed & tung oil?

 

[1950DAVE]

Walnut oil and beeswax blend to finish inside of wooden bowls I turn. It might make a good final polish for a firearm as it is very water resistant.

 

[dave_person]

Hi David,
The polymerized oils are heat treated to basically initiate that natural polymerization much faster also aided by solvents. I suggest anyone posting about their "tung" oil finish also post the products name and manufacturer.
Some posters are comparing apples and oranges all under the name "tung oil" and that creates a lot of confusion. As I've posted many times, I use Sutherland-Welles polymerized tung oil in medium sheen. It is not their exterior finish which simply means it does not have UV blockers added. No need for them on a gun stock. If you purchase some online, I urge you to buy their stop loss bags and filler system, which you can use for other finishes as well. Because of the polymerization process, the oil has a shelf life when it is exposed to air after opening. It will start to gel in a few months. The stop loss bags prevent that entirely and I've had oil in them for 2 years without gelling.


dave

 

[wiscoaster]

.... I suggest anyone posting about their "tung" oil finish also post the products name and manufacturer.

Any time I mention it in a post it would be wrt Minwax Tung Oil Finish, though I might use something else as a "final" finish. Either paste wax or shoe polish are my final finish go-to's.

.....Some posters are comparing apples and oranges all under the name "tung oil" and that creates a lot of confusion.

No kidding.

Hi David,
....Because of the polymerization process, the oil has a shelf life when it is exposed to air after opening. It will start to gel in a few months.

Double no kidding.

I use the products mentioned above because I get results I'm happy with using methods I prefer to use. No doubt my products and methods have their drawbacks and there are others that are better, but then that would mean spending money to buy them and then time and effort to test them, and if I'm already happy with what I'm doing then the motivation to do all that just isn't there.

 

[blfuller]

Here's a link to an article for wood finishes on U.S. martial arms that may be helpful to some...
https://thecmp.org/wood-cleaning-article/

 

[wiscoaster]

Here's a link to an article for wood finishes on U.S. martial arms that may be helpful to some...
https://thecmp.org/wood-cleaning-article/

Thanks for the link. Bookmarked for future reference.

 

[2 shots]

I wouldn’t use any kind of tuna oil on my work!

“If you’re going to use a 100% organic tuna oil linseed oil finish, you’ll need a few things.“

guess its good if your hunting any of the cats.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Here's a link to an article for wood finishes on U.S. martial arms that may be helpful to some...
https://thecmp.org/wood-cleaning-article/

Excellent article

 

[Coinneach]

Hi Wiscoaster,
Tru-Oil is a polymerized oil (linseed) and polymerized tung oil can acquire a glossy hard brittle look if you build it up. It is all about application not the finish. Minwax "Tung Oil Finish" has no tung oil. It may have some derivatives made from tung oil but no oil. Neither does Formby's tung oil finish. They are both wiping varnishes meaning they are applied with rag or brush, let sit for a few minutes, and then all excess wiped off. They do not penetrate very deeply (really no finish does) but are still good finishes. I used Formby's on a couple of guns years ago and the results were fine. It was Kit Ravenshear's go to finish for everything.

dave

Formbys, do you mean Formbys Furniture Restorer ?