the myth of the "unreliable flintlock"

[Matt85]

i ran into this myth at the gun show today. first i had a guy ask be "why do you bother" when i was carefully sifting threw trays of flints. i tried my best to explain the importance of a properly knapped flint to flint lifespan but it fell back on "they arent reliable any way". the strange part is this guy was a vendor at the stall selling the flints...

a little while later at the show, a guy was trying to talk me into a caplock and i told him "im onley interested in flintlocks". he then went ahead and tried to explain how unreliable flintlocks were and that caplocks were the onley real choice for reliable hunting. what made this worse was the other crowd of people around me starting nodding in agreement! again i tried to explain that even my cheap india made flintlock was completely reliable. some of the crowd seemed shocked but most just didnt believe me.

im new to flintlocks and was unaware of this myth before purchasing my first flintlock. my experiance does not match this belief at all and i would 100% trust my flintlock to go off when i need it to. the onley failures ive ever had were when i failed to properly manage my flint by letting it get dull from use without knapping. just a little bit of experiance and im sure ill learn when its time to knap and when its ok not to. however if i was going hunting i would simply throw in a new sharp flint or lightly knap the current flint and i can garantee the gun will go off without fail when ive got a deer in my sights.

this post doesnt really have a purpose, i was just shocked that so many believed the flintlock was somehow unreliable.

-matt

 

[Lonegun1894]

I've had the same experience with people trying to tell me the same thing. I try to educate if they will listen, but most won't, so I don't try too hard if it's obvious that their minds are made up. The best one so far has been when I got the same speech by several inline shooters at a range and we went shot for shot, and their last shooter started having misfires at the 12th shot, while mine kept going for about 40 shots when I ran out of RBs and packed up and went home without a single misfire or delayed fire. The bad thing is that I still occasionally see a few of them and a couple of them STILL talk trash about how unreliable sidelocks are compared to their inlines. Guess some people don't learn even after they have been proven wrong.

 

[M. De Land]

I believe they are plenty reliable if properly managed but I still believe a percussion is more reliable under more conditions than is a flint lock.
If one has to fire in a down pour and wind I don't think there is any question to the comparison of reliability to be honest.
And under such conditions, percussion ignition is more easily managed to make them reliable. It's sealed up better and it is direct,not indirect ignition. A look at the other side of the coin .MD

 

[Many Klatch]

There are a lot of gun myths out there that "everybody knows" :stir: You can hear a lot of this at any big box sporting goods store from folks behind the counter.

1)Flintlocks are undependable and won't work in the rain
2)Brown Bess (all smoothbores) are inaccurate
3)Roundballs are inaccurate only sabotted bullets will work
4)Blackpowder is unstable and dangerous and static electricity will set it off
5)Muzzleloaders with roundball don't have the power kill deer or other big game
6)Muzzleloaders with the newer explosives don't require cleaning after shooting
7)You need a scope to shoot accurately

And there are more.

Many Klatch

 

[Many Klatch]

MD, I hate to argue with you on this reliability thing but: If I am shooting on a range with other muzzleloaders and there is a mix of Flinters and caplocks, if the weather is changeable it always seems that the caplocks will have more misfires than the flinters.

Also with a flintgun a misfire is a lot easier to cure. Simply put more powder in the pan and try again. With a caplock that won't fire, we usually wind up pulling the nipple, pouring in a little 4F (borrowed from a friendly Flint shooter) and then putting the nipple back on and a new cap.

I agree that shooting in a pouring rain will likely have bad repercussions for the flint shooter, but it will be bad for the caplock shooter as well. That is the reason that they invented the modern brass cartridge.

Many Klatch

 

[pargent]

Sales driven dribble, their loss not ours

 

[Renegade Dan]

I have only been shooting flintlocks for not quite 2 years now, and I have found that when I have a misfire, it is usually something that I didn't do. ( dull flint, didn't clear the touch hole, too much primer.)

 

[Trench]

I imagine a flintlock can seem super unreliable if you don't know what you're doing. Imagine a first-timer who doesn't have any help who doesn't know about positioning flints, knapping them, or moving them forward as it wears down. On top of that imagine they buy pyrodex instead of real black powder. Then, on top of that they don't pick the vent or wipe the pan as they shoot. I think they would walk away with the idea that they are unreliable, for sure.

Not knowing these things and shooting a flintlock is like fueling up a car with maple syrup instead of gas and deeming it unreliable. Flintlocks are reliable, "IF".

 

[Black Hand]

I believe they are plenty reliable if properly managed but I still believe a percussion is more reliable under more conditions than is a flint lock.
If one has to fire in a down pour and wind I don't think there is any question to the comparison of reliability to be honest.
And under such conditions, percussion ignition is more easily managed to make them reliable. It's sealed up better and it is direct,not indirect ignition. A look at the other side of the coin .MD

I will also disagree with you. I've shot mine under all conditions with no more difficulty than a centerfire. Wind, rain, snow or sun are equal and reliability has never been an issue.

Not much different than starting a fire with flint and steel. Some people can do it under any condition, while some couldn't start a fire if they had a gallon of gas and a blow-torch to help the spark along.

You do your part, and the flinter will do its part. As with anything else, it is more the operator than the equipment.....

 

[necchi]

my experiance does not match this belief at all and i would 100% trust my flintlock to go off when i need it to.

Bold statement for any traditional gun.
I just hope you "knock on wood",,

I've simply been around too many folks shooting too many Trad rifles of all kinds too be able to say something like that, :nono:

 

[Billnpatti]

When all things are right, the flintlock is quite reliable. However, the flintlock is prone to more problems than a caplock. Dull flint, damp powder in pan, plugged flash channel, etc. These things are why the flintlock was replaced by the caplock. Over all, the caplock is more reliable than the flintlock. However, all this does not mean that a flintlock is not reliable. If the shooter does his thing and takes care to keep a sharp flint, dry powder in the pan and a clear flash channel, not to mention a good frizzen, the flintlock will go bang just as often as a caplock. It just requires a bit more attention. I love my flintlocks.

 

[BullRunBear]

I've heard all these myths and more. (Let's not forget how it takes three men and a boy several days to clean a BP rifle. It drives me nuts to hear some kid behind the counter spouting his misinformation as if it were the laws of physics. Used to keep quiet at such times but not any more. I got tired of hearing the hobby damaged by these fools. Now if someone doesn't want to bother with the slight extra effort to maintain MLs, or doesn't like the slower pace, that's their business. But it shouldn't result from bad information.

That said, I do think percussion is easier for a beginner as there is less to fiddle with and adjust and percussion is more forgiving for propellent. Reliability with a flinter takes a bit more learning/experience. It's also more satisfying.

Jeff

 

[majg1234]

yep Matt had the same questions and ideas @ my hunt club when I started with flinters a few years back,now a couple of deer,a turkey and many many squirrels in the pot all I hear is "D Boone" is back :wink: I'm not so sure they are a lotless reliable than a capper if all is done right and the very few times I've had a FTF it was because of a flint issue.My only FTF on my S Mtn 40 was a loose flint and the 2 on my Early VA thus far were a broken flint and a dull one respectively,all three were my fault.This all with several hundred shots over the years.Now my fowler has never had a FTF.oooops now I've jinxed it for turkey season better start the anti hexing ritual :hmm:

 

[Vaino]

Having shot both cap and flint a lot, the cap is more reliable under rainy conditions and w/ fewer possibilities of user mistakes from lack of doing what's required. I'm not at all saying that a flint is unrelable...just that it requires more from the user to make it equal w/ a cap. Personally, I prefer a flint and have hunted w/ one in all sorts of weather and because of all the precautions I used, it has always been as reliable as a cap. One factor not mentioned so far is the complexity of the actual flintlock VS a caplock....flintlocks can be "touchy" whereas caplocks are much more straight forward because of their simplicity....Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

I don't think this is a myth issue as much as it is a mindset issue. Today many (most?) hunters and shooters are stuck in the modern gun mindset and see muzzleloaders only as an opportunity for an extra deer season. They have no interest in the history, or just plain fun, of shooting traditional style muzzle loaders.
Not worth the extra breath trying to explain to them.

 

[Supercracker]

They have no interest in the history, or just plain fun, of shooting traditional style muzzle loaders.
Not worth the extra breath trying to explain to them.

I think that's starting to change a bit. I think there is an undercurrent or subculture within the greater hunting community of people that are starting to reject gizmo driven, technology assisted hunting and are being pushed the other way.

The traditional archery community is growing SUPER FAST. I don't think I've ever talked to a single one of them that wasn't either already interested in traditional MLs or wasn't really interested after I talked to them. Seems like they always either think that there isn't much out there besides mass produced caplocks and I&&#nes and that doesn't excite them.

Or they think that it's all weird buckskinner types that spend all their time arguing over whether so and so from a particular time period would have had flat buttons or domed buttons on his haversack instead of hunting.

If you want interest in traditional muzzleloaders to grow then THOSE are the people to seek out. But currently, it doesn't seem to be being presented that way.


On the original point. I do almost all my hunting with either a perc shotgun or a flint rifle. I have way more misfires with the cap gun.

 

[nkbj]

If they give you too much claptrap just do your best to keep a straight face while explaining that you save your old flints because they make great rabbit bullets.

 

[Dphar]

There are a lot of gun myths out there that "everybody knows" :stir: You can hear a lot of this at any big box sporting goods store from folks behind the counter.

1)Flintlocks are undependable and won't work in the rain
2)Brown Bess (all smoothbores) are inaccurate
3)Roundballs are inaccurate only sabotted bullets will work
4)Blackpowder is unstable and dangerous and static electricity will set it off
5)Muzzleloaders with roundball don't have the power kill deer or other big game
6)Muzzleloaders with the newer explosives don't require cleaning after shooting
7)You need a scope to shoot accurately

And there are more.

Many Klatch

At my age and the state of vision in my right eye a scope is nice.

The smoothbores accuracy is greatly dependent on the distance its being shot.
Also they tend to throw random fliers that always seem to occur when hunting. No matter how well they shoot in practice. (3-4 instances of this with a could of different shooters)
Also most moderns may load them differently than they were loaded back in the day.
AND the bore sizes, for example, are more uniform today at least in the better reproductions.
The accounts of shooting muskets with issue ammo at the time show that circa 1800 hits on man sized targets at 100 meters were somewhat problematical.
The French found that when shooting at a target TWO METERS SQUARE the standard ball of the time, 1818, would hit the target 88% of the time. Increasing the ball from .63 to .65 gave 95% hits. This from firing 100 rounds with each size.

Dan

 

[M. De Land]

I don't hate you disagreeing with me cause there ain't no end to the things I don't know and I want to here counter opinion. I test what I think against what others think and pitch the worst idea.
I like the discussion and exchange of ideas! Mike

 

[hanshi]

I've hunted with both cap and flint with equal success and under the same conditions. A flint rifle can be absolutely as reliable as a percussion as long as the flint operator is well schooled and experienced. A lugnut can pick up a percussion, and as long as he knows what it eats and which end is which, he can get reliable performance from it unless he's a Darwin Award candidate. The experienced flinter can keep up with him shot for shot until they both run out of ammo....and my money would be on the flint shooter.

Mechanically simple and user friendly the nod goes to the percussion if the shooter is even moderately trained. To equal him a flinter must know his stuff backwards ("backerds", for us Southern boys) and forwards. There is so much less to go wrong with a caplock. Flintlocks, on the other hand, abide NO distraction.

I've had them both in the rain and the flintlock is easier to get wet. A percussion can get wet also, just not as easily.

Thing to do is let them spin their trash on flints and simply agree to take them off their hands for a modest price. Don't get no better.