the myth of the "unreliable flintlock"

[Tinker2]

Not responding to anyone in particular, just my take on the consciences.


So simple minded folk that can’t be trained and have ten thumbs are happier with percussion.




William Alexander

 

[M. De Land]

I think that type of personality is happier with anvils ,feathers and rubber ducky's! Who wants them to have an interest in anything that goes bang? MD

 

[Matt85]

my experiance does not match this belief at all and i would 100% trust my flintlock to go off when i need it to.

Bold statement for any traditional gun.
I just hope you "knock on wood",,

I've simply been around too many folks shooting too many Trad rifles of all kinds too be able to say something like that, :nono:

with my india made musket, if i put a new flint in the cock and powder in the pan the gun WILL go off. the onley failures its ever had were from repeated shooting without paying attention to the flint. im learning that i need to check the sharpness of a flint about every 10 shots. sometimes it will go 10 shots and then need knapping but other times it will go 40 shots without knapping. it depends on how well the flint is knapped to begin with. but the gun has never failed on the first shot!

i wont say a flintlock is more reliable then a caplock. im just saying a flintlock is not unreliable. if you do your part (which isnt hard) the flintlock will go bang when you need it to.

-matt

 

[david50]

know your weapon,know your weapon,know your weapon.= reliability

 

[M. De Land]

I think I might be able to challenge your thinking about flintlock reliability if you could experience a day on Kodiak or the Ak peninsula hunting deer in driving,wind swept, all day rain, alder brush and and a salt water spray skiff ride across the bay to get where the deer are. Your not even dry inside your Halley Hanson's in this kind of cold humid air. MD

 

[lonehunter]

know your weapon,know your weapon,know your weapon.= reliability

Ding, Ding, Ding, We have a winner folks! :thumbsup:

 

[biliff]

Everybody knows
1) flintlocks are unreliable
2) flintlocks are slow to fire
3) flintlocks are impossible to shoot well due to #1&#2

It's all common knowledge passed down thru the generations, none of whom have actually fired a flintlock. As was pointed out in other posts, the substitute powders, etc. only contribute to the perception.

You can change a few minds with real world experience. Others will cling to their beliefs no matter what you do.

 

[Moose Guide]

There are a lot of gun myths out there that "everybody knows" :stir: You can hear a lot of this at any big box sporting goods store from folks behind the counter.

1)Flintlocks are undependable and won't work in the rain
2)Brown Bess (all smoothbores) are inaccurate
3)Roundballs are inaccurate only sabotted bullets will work
4)Blackpowder is unstable and dangerous and static electricity will set it off
5)Muzzleloaders with roundball don't have the power kill deer or other big game
6)Muzzleloaders with the newer explosives don't require cleaning after shooting
7)You need a scope to shoot accurately

And there are more.

Many Klatch

At my age and the state of vision in my right eye a scope is nice.

The smoothbores accuracy is greatly dependent on the distance its being shot.
Also they tend to throw random fliers that always seem to occur when hunting. No matter how well they shoot in practice. (3-4 instances of this with a could of different shooters)
Also most moderns may load them differently than they were loaded back in the day.
AND the bore sizes, for example, are more uniform today at least in the better reproductions.
The accounts of shooting muskets with issue ammo at the time show that circa 1800 hits on man sized targets at 100 meters were somewhat problematical.
The French found that when shooting at a target TWO METERS SQUARE the standard ball of the time, 1818, would hit the target 88% of the time. Increasing the ball from .63 to .65 gave 95% hits. This from firing 100 rounds with each size.

Dan

Could the lack of accuracy from the French (or any) military musket be due to the loading meathod? The paper cartridge was rammed down with the ball in a rushed manner, and I doubt that it was ever well centered. I think if they had used a patched round ball the results would have shown much greater accuracy and consistancy.

 

[Baxter]

At 69 years of age with 50 years of CF use and 20 years of percussion use I now own my very first flintlock and, frankly, I don't give a damn what others think about that. It is finally mine and I am going to enjoy it, warts and all.

 

[Moose Guide]

:hatsoff: :thumbsup:

 

[Lock Nut]

Flintlocks unreliable? :hmm:
The "myth" is only in the minds of the misinformed and the inexperienced.

 

[M. De Land]

Well, I'm a lover and user of flintlock pistols and believe they are quite reliable but having said that I've been hunting deer on the south end of Kodiak island several times and I doubt many of you could have gotten your favorite flinter to fire reliably under the conditions often present that time of year.
I'm talking all day long down pours,in the alder brush with 20 knot winds driving it sideways and a salt water skiff ride over to where the deer are. Often you hunt in this weather or not at all.
You can't even stay dry inside a full set of Halley Hanson's. Heavy , cold , humid air is the norm and in this Brown bear country you can barely afford a single shot let alone a misfire.
One year we had a 9 footer living in the cannery incinerator after tearing off the iron door. Practical brute , we all thought, for his choice of a den. :grin: MD

 

[Matt85]

I think I might be able to challenge your thinking about flintlock reliability if you could experience a day on Kodiak or the Ak peninsula hunting deer in driving,wind swept, all day rain, alder brush and and a salt water spray skiff ride across the bay to get where the deer are. Your not even dry inside your Halley Hanson's in this kind of cold humid air. MD

no muzzleloading gun would work well under those conditions. ive seen plenty of caplocks fail due to rain. heck even those modern "muzzleloaders" dont handle too much rain well. excessive rain is the enemy of all muzzleloading firearms.

besides if its raining sideways i aint out hunting. if i had to hunt in those situations to survive, i would use a bow. (or a modern gun)

-matt

 

[M. De Land]

I actually have a friend that took his .54 percussion to the same cannery one year and got a deer or two with it. He didn't use it when it was blowing rain sideways and said the shots were long that year and he had to pass up quite a few.
One thing about the bad weather though is they hold up in the alders and you can get close to them with all the wind and rain noise. Trouble is you are just as likely to step on a brown. I've had this happen several times and it never ceases to about make me jump out of my Halley Hanson's.
I always seem to jump a deer about dark, don't have sense enough to leave him until morning and wind up walking back to the cannery in the dark.
Always scares the manure out of me and yet I never learn. Something about seeing a big buck I have a shot at that pushed all else to the back ground.
A load of fresh kill deer meat on your pack board and walking back in the dark through the alders is not the brightest of things that can be done. It does make it less stressful if you happen to have a pardner along. MD

 

[Stumpkiller]

When it's raining that hard I'm either inside reading or sitting under the hemlocks. For deer hunting here in cold and soggy NY I use either a traditional recurve bow and wood arrows (with feather fletchings) of a flintlock rifle or smoothbore. I've been told both won't "work" in the rain. But not by dead deer.

When carrying a flintlock in wet weather I keep the lock covered with a waxed leather cow's knee until the game is sighted. A hunting frock with a douple shoulder cowl helps you keep it tucked in the drier parts of your overcoat.

Folks lived and died by flintlocks for a long time. Live with a weapon and you learn it's strengths and weaknesses. The last thing you want to do is bet against someone who knows his ropes based on rumors, ideas and notions.

I'm sure there are folks who will tell you standard-shift cars are unreliable, carbon-steel knife blades are inferior to stainless, and you can't land a six pound fish with two pound test line.

Usually they either haven't figured out use and upkeep of their gear or want to sell you something.

If flintlocks were more reliable than centerfires we wouldn't consider them more challenging, more sporting and more rewarding. :thumbsup: Step up to the plate or set the bat down.

 

[M. De Land]

You will likely get mauled if all you have is a bow and you jump a old bore or sow with cubs at 5 yards as you come out of a ravine or around a corner.
A flint lock isn't going to be much better either as you usually won't have time enough to even get it cocked,,,,,,,,,, I kid you not nor exaggerate in the least. You may have two seconds, that is one thousand one and one thousand two, before they are on you if they decide to come. Even if you do by some miracle manage to get it to fire in these conditions you have got to cut their wiring to stop them. A heart shot will get you killed and will not stop them if they want you.
I have had several very close shaves and they decided to run rather than fight. I use a .338 and it would not stop them in time unless the shot is placed right. Tough to do in two or three seconds after recovering from the shock of the encounter.
Lewis an Clark tell it pretty accurately when they encountered the plains grizzly. They said they were never stopped by just one ball and always used gang fire to deal with them. Most open ground grizzlies will go about half the weight of a Kodiak brown.
Folks bow hunt Brown bear but never without high power rifle back up and a heavy pistol on their person. Same deal with a muzzle loader and I personally would much rather use my .58 with a big conical and musket cap than the same gun with flint ignition and patched ball. MD

 

[Ron_T.]

I shoot both finters and caplocks... and it took me a while to finally learn all the little "tricks" to making my the flintlock very reliable. The "tricks" are to insure the flash-hole is open and the flash-channel has been cleared of debris. In addition, it's important to see that a little bit of the FFFFg priming powder gets into and through the flash-hole, but to insure the flash-hole is "open" when you primer the frizzen pan.

Then too, you should always wipe off the edge of the flint and insure that edge is sharp and will take a good "swipe" at the frizzen so the shower to sparks will be sufficient to set off the FFFFg in the pan.

If the shooter does all these things, the flintlock should fire every time.

As for hunting with either a flinter or a caplock in the rain, I question why anyone would subject their beautiful rifle and themselves to such lousy weather conditions.

If it is raining, I don't even bother to go out to hunt. I sit by the cozy, warm fire in the fireplace and read Muzzle Blast... or a good book.

If it starts raining when I'm already out there, I make for the cabin or some shelter pronto since I don't like to get my sweet rifles or my little pink fanny wet!

As long as the shooter does all the things he should with either a flint-lock or a cap-lock, there's very little difference between the reliability of the flintlock vs. the cap-lock... and I don't even consider an "in-line" in the same category, so that's a moot point.

You might call me a "fair-weather-hunter" and you'd be right, but just don't call me "late-for-dinner"! :v :grin: :haha:

Make "good" smoke... :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

 

[Vaino]

A few years back during the MLer elk hunting in Colorado, it rained for 7 out of the 9 day season.....sometimes just a drizzle and many times a downpour....went out before sun up and hunted 'til dark every day of the season. The MLer elk season in Colorado doesn't happen every year because of the lottery and preference points req'd, so it's a treasured hunt which requires, IMO, a complete dedication and a little rain is really not even considered an inconvenience. By the way....on this hunt, all the MLers were caplocks and w/o a malfunction.....Fred

 

[Black Hand]

By the way....on this hunt, all the MLers were caplocks and w/o a malfunction.....Fred

Sorry, this doesn't speak to the reliability of flintlocks nor it is evidence that the percussion ignition is superior to the flintlock under adverse weather conditions. It is purely a reflection of the personal choice and bias of the hunters....

 

[Vaino]

W/in our elk hunting group are persons who only hunt w/ MLers on this one hunt....have found that a more reliable MLer for these guys is the caplock.....and, these guys are experienced elk hunters....the "gun" is a tool to achieve their goal. They don't want what they figure are unnecessary complications using a flintlock.

I prefer to shoot flintlocks, but am not enamoured w/ them to the point of ignoring the obvious....starting w/ the flintlock itself, it's a much more complicated mechanism than the caplock. Touch holes can be "trouble spots" judging from all the posts concerning them...field cleaning can clog the TH. Flints require knapping....caps don't. Also there's the actual shooting....flintlocks require training to shoot accurately...ignition delay can cause flinching.

Shoot whatever "turns you on"...I'm not espousing what a person should shoot....that's their business.....Fred