the myth of the "unreliable flintlock"

[Len Graves]

I do hunt, and shoot in competition a flint lock rifle. I also do some historical re-enacting, and every now and again sell a gun at a rondy. Many times I have been informed by "an expert" that flinters are unreliable. I thought , the only way to truly answer that question was to conduct an experiment my self. I started counting shots when starting a local league. even counting practice shots Etc. when I had my first failure I had counted 163 consecutive shots and all on one flint. Three of those events were in the rain. I now relate that to those individuals who tell me about unreliability. I do not tell them that when I changed the flint I only had seven shots before the flint broke in two. I do feel that a well maintained rifle is good enough to depend on for hunting. I took a bear in Canada while alone about seven miles from anyone else with a flint rifle and no other weapons available.

 

[matt denison]

At our club shoot just yesterday: clear, mild, about 50 deg.

Of fifteen shooters who showed up only five of us were shooting flintlocks. Of the ten cap lock shooters three of them had problems where they had to pull nipples and add 4F to make them go off, one of those did it twice. (not dryballs either) None of the flinters had any problems at all and in fact placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

 

[aeatwood]

Wind, not rain is the bane of Flintlocks. Hard to ignite a charge that is already 2" to the right when the sparks reach the pan.

 

[Black Hand]

Wind, not rain is the bane of Flintlocks. Hard to ignite a charge that is already 2" to the right when the sparks reach the pan.

Nonsense....

 

[Col. Batguano]

I would never use a ML'er to hunt dangerous game without a back-up armed with a modern gun. Even if you have 100% shot reliability, you still may need a 2nd, 3rd, or more shots. That isn't possible with ML firearms.

 

[Black Hand]

I would never use a ML'er to hunt dangerous game without a back-up armed with a modern gun. Even if you have 100% shot reliability, you still may need a 2nd, 3rd, or more shots. That isn't possible with ML firearms.

All the more incentive to load faster. I shoot then immediately re-load before approaching game. Personally, I see no need to carry a modern firearm as a backup.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I should have clarified; Hunting dangerous game alone with a single shot possible at ranges they can do you harm (50 yards and under) is asking for trouble. Even magazine rifles are prone to fail at times (short stroke, magazine jam etc.), which is why the African white hunters prefer the big doubles (along with the romance of them too). that's the way Ruark did it!

 

[Black Hand]

There was no need for clarification, as I understood the first time. I still see no need for a modern back-up firearm. But your mileage may vary compared to mine....

 

[Matt85]

the "gun" is a tool to achieve their goal.

if the above statement is how they really feel then i would say traditional guns are not for your friends. a modern firearm will be 10 fold more reliable and hit targets at distances not possible with most traditional firearms. to me the gun is far more then just a tool to achieve my goal! a traditional gun is a piece of art and history to be enjoyed with or without a successful hunt. using a caplock or flintlock for hunting is an experiance unto itself. i have never hunted with a modern gun and if i could no longer hunt with my traditional guns then i would stop hunting.

i did not make this thread to say flintlocks are more reliable then caplocks. i made this thread to say flintlocks are not unreliable.

as to the talk about flintlocks needing much maintenance to work. i do not wipe my flint/frizzen/pan and i do not pick my vent. nor do i swab between each shot. all i do is load, prime, shoot, and repeat. about every 5-10 shots i will do a quick swab just to make cleaning at the end of the day easier. i understand some guns need more work then mine but i imagine that depends on who built your gun and what kind of gun it is.

-matt

 

[Larry Pletcher]

from Matt85: . . . later at the show, a guy was trying to talk me into a caplock and i told him "im onley interested in flintlocks". he then went ahead and tried to explain how unreliable flintlocks were and that caplocks were the onley real choice for reliable hunting. what made this worse was the other crowd of people around me starting nodding in agreement!

I enjoy flintlocks and consider them quite reliable. From years of timing them, I realize that not all locks are equal or as Orwell said "some locks are more equal than others." :wink:

My opinion is that once you shoot a good lock, reliability then becomes the responsibility of the shooter. As one can say about people, flintlocks are high maintenance. A good lock, well maintained is a joy to shoot. Shooters who know their lock inside and out, really complement the working of a fine lock.

Regarding a comparison of reliability between locks, I'll stay out of that one. I haven't shot a cap gun for 12 years. I do think the counter person's comments disturbing. It makes you want to reply, "I can tell you haven't shot a good flintlock." or "How many good flintlocks have you shot?" or "I'd like you to shoot mine sometime."

To me the issue isn't flint vs cap; It's that the guy behind the counter probably has no experience with flintlocks and yet considers himself an expert - repeating what he hears from others equally inexperienced.

OK I'm done. I have no problems with cap guns, but I really like fine flintlocks.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Vaino]

The MLer elk hunt is in September which normally has beautiful weather and the elk are in rut.....those are the reasons my friends and I prefer to hunt this season. As I said....I don't care what type of MLer they use...in fact one year an "unmentionable" was used and didn't cause any problems in the camp.

I agree that a "gun" is a tool that enables one to kill animals for meat.....and is historically correct.

Telling somebody as to what "gun" they should use isn't what I'm about...it's a personal preference.and although mine is a flintlock, I certainly wouldn't "push" my choice onto another.

A flintlock rifle is a dependable gun which does require addt'l precautions VS a caplock and I've been shooting both a lot since 1977.....Fred

 

[M. De Land]

Well than set your affairs in order if your going after Kodiak browns or hunt them on the Peninsula and no back up, with any single shot, let alone a muzzle loader.
For it is clear you have no experience with this kind of weather or the bears that live in it, to say such things. MD

 

[Stumpkiller]

You will likely get mauled if all you have is a bow and you jump a old bore or sow with cubs at 5 yards as you come out of a ravine or around a corner.

Don't blame me. I didn't ask you to live there. I mentioned "soggy NY" where the occasional black bear usually has the good sense to stick to garbage dumps and not interfere with the deer woods.

I've also been told a mule deer can't be killed with a round ball because they don't allow humans within 250 yards.

I realize those areas were inhabited by saber-toothed cats and humans never lived there until after 1830 when arms got modernized.

Good excuse as any I suppose to live in NY. Everything with an open season that moves can be successfully killed with a flintlock - with the exception of migratory birds that require steel shot . . . but I don't care for their taste so that's OK. ;-)

 

[irishtoo]

when i do my part, my guns go bang. i started in blackpowder cause i wanted a challenge and i like to build stuff. my guns (permit me a brag) are headturners compared to a black plastic stock. also they are mine, built and finished by me, one of a kind. not thousands of the same gun, bought by anyone. misinformation is epidemic in this and all firearm sports. i try to educate but some just cant or wont learn.

 

[hanshi]

Flintlocks are certainly high maintenance without a doubt. Lots more variables to consider than with a caplock. As I offered previously, percussion is a somewhat more reliable system than flint, IMO. Still, I haven't hunted with a caplock in many years. Flint is (my) preference.

Having said that it's still worth relating my latest trip to the range. Recently acquired a very nice capgun and finally had the chance to take it to the range for sight-in. About every other visit with a flinter is accompanied by a FTF caused by a loose or dull flint - taken care of by tightening or knapping - or a FITP. And that's it. At least half the time - I normally install used flints for the range - I experience NO problem at all; just maybe every couple of trips on average. That's at most 2 or 3 FTF out of every 100 + shots.

The percussion I carried to the range is a delightful, accurate and easy to fire accurately. It was not faster to reload and delivered about 10% FTF. The causes were spent caps not completely picked from the hammer and caps not seating well enough to fire on the first hammer fall. It took extra seconds to assure caps were fully seated; but even then it occasionally took two tries to get ignition. Most of the time the spent cap either fell or was easily brushed from the hammer nose. But several times a piece would remain, unseen, in the hammer nose. I'd say these two things constitute about the only practical areas of concern that can result in percussion FTF. Flintlocks are more problematic but a skilled flint operator can often beat out the cap shooter.

Another point. I have not, within memory, been spit on by the pan igniting. With the percussion I was firing today a "spit" actually drew blood on a finger of my supporting hand.

 

[Dphar]

There was no need for clarification, as I understood the first time. I still see no need for a modern back-up firearm. But your mileage may vary compared to mine....

I worry as much about the people I might meet in some places. I hunt with a ML because I want to. If I don't want to that day or the wind is really high, or I am hunting hayfields late in the season and the shots might be 300 yards I don't take a ML.
Gbears? Everyone should let their conscience be their guide. If I have my 16 bore rifle and use it right I am not likely to need a backup.

I also hunt with this.

I carry a modern or a FL pistol as suits me.
I tend to carry a handgun regardless of what I am doing. But there are places where its not allowed in Montana so sometimes I am unarmed.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

I should have clarified; Hunting dangerous game alone with a single shot possible at ranges they can do you harm (50 yards and under) is asking for trouble. Even magazine rifles are prone to fail at times (short stroke, magazine jam etc.), which is why the African white hunters prefer the big doubles (along with the romance of them too). that's the way Ruark did it!

Many in Africa carried pistols and revolvers too.
John Taylor for one.
Dan

 

[tenngun]

On thing I noted and thought of this as I was reding Dans post.Dan being from the Mountians, And I grew up in New Mexico I found my fliner just never misfired.Then I moved to Arkansas and the increased humidity startd giving me misfires. I had to learn a whole new set of skills.I have never had a misfire on the trail, but I have to be careful to not get a clatch while plinking.No Dan wasn't talking about that I just got the idea while reading his post and agree with him that I woud want a backup while hunting gizzlebars,although I would want to do it with my smoothie(dont think I will ever get to) :rotf:

 

[George T.]

I and my Ex-Wife killed a bunch of Texas deer with flinters in 40 Cal. Al though on those foggy November days when the 4F turned to mud we kept the pans cleaned and refreshed. We never had a miss fire while hunting!

That being said I can shed light on the Flint Lock being unreliable story! I have shot at a heck of a lot of local matches and state level matches here in Texas and I KNOW the reason people think these things about flint locks!

Many Flint Lock Shooters are cheap skates and try to use flints well past their prime. Hey guys I shot next to a fellow shooter at this past Sundays match that had way more misfires than reliable ignitions! I see this all of the time. Shooters knaping flints with pocket knives or any metal object trying to set a few more shots out of that flint!

Anyone that goes to a match or public range and screws around like this has no room to gripe amout people thinking his chose in rifles are POS's. I rest my case! Geo. T.

 

[Matt85]

Many Flint Lock Shooters are cheap skates and try to use flints well past their prime.

i can see merit in this statement, ive been guilty of pushing the limit with my flints from time to time. i tend to wait untell the flint fails before knapping. i admit it would probably look better if i didnt try and squeeze every last shot i can outa each flint. but... flints are expensive and i am indeed cheap! :redface:

i suppose people like myself could be blamed for this myth. :slap:

-matt