The Scottish Dirk

[PUFFER2]

The Scottish Dirk

 

[Loja man]

I love dirks!! Here is one I made!! So were you just hoping for photos or did you have more to say about them?

 

[PUFFER2]

I love dirks!! Here is one I made!! So were you just hoping for photos or did you have more to say about them?

Both

 

[Notchy Bob]

If the topic of Scottish dirks is wide open, I'll submit this picture of Hugh Monroe (1798-1892), an old Hudson's Bay man who married into the Piegans. I don't know the date of the photo, but it was likely near the end of his long life. I believe the man sitting next to him is his son. Anyway, that sure looks like a dirk Mr. Monroe is holding in his right hand, to me:



If we can agree on that, I guess it would be photographic confirmation of a dirk on the northwestern frontier.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Am sure you are right, Bob!
Have only made a couple myself.
Carried one as my second shof when hunting with flint.
Gave it to daughter later for when woods walking.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Man, you guys do extraordinary work! Those are some nice looking dirks.

Were these ever military issue, or were they always privately purchased?

The ones shown all display beautiful workmanship, in basic architecture as well as ornamentation. This would lead one to believe that a dirk was a wealthy man’s accoutrement. Have any simpler ones survived? A back issue of the Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting had an article about “gralloching knives” from Scotland. If I remember correctly, these were in between the dirk and the stocking knife in size. I recall that one of the examples shown in the article had a very simple, natural antler handle with about a 7” blade. The blade did not have the degree of finish shown on the dirks above, yet it was nicely forged and had some file work on the back. I’ll try to dig out the article and post a picture if anybody is interested.

Thanks for posting your work, fellows. The quality of workmanship shown by some of our forum members is a continual source of amazement for me.

Notchy Bob

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,
The dirk for Government troops were purpose made as such, but at one time, nearly every Highlander had a dirk as it was required for all to be armed for troubled times.
Even poor highlanders had them.
As the hilt was made of wood, we do see many somewhat rustic examples, but often carved nicely with knot-work and even studded with heather studs for grip. Many were made from broken or cut down sword blades.
If we look at the later period, Culloden for instance, nearly every clansman had a targe, dirk and broadsword.
the tage for battle often had a screw in spike fitted in the centre, and the same hand gripped both the strap of the targe and the dirk .
In use against cavalry, the dismounted highlander would use the targe spike of dirk against the horses.
Against infantry, the targe was used to flip aside the bayonet of the opposing soldier, and the sword used for slashing.

A good few tagres were saved after proscription, as they worked very well for a lid for a meal barrel!

There is one such tage to be seen in Eilean Donan castle, that was found being used as a barrel lid!

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,
It looks in the above like I spelled targe about 16 different ways!
Lol!

 

[Notchy Bob]

Bob,
It looks in the above like I spelled targe about 16 different ways!
Lol!

We knew what you meant!

Seriously, though, I think it brought out a point a lot of us might not consider, in that a shield (targe, in this case) was not just a protective device, for defensive purposes, but a weapon that could be used offensively. I had read that the Zulus of South Africa took their system of military training and weaponry very seriously, and they developed techniques for using those big cowhide shields that would put an enemy at a real disadvantage in close combat. It sounds as if the dirk in combination with a targe and sword could make a fellow pretty dangerous. I didn’t know they were used that way.

All very interesting.

Notchy Bob

 

[Pukka Bundook]

Bob,
Yes, a highlander with these arms was like a cat. armed all the way 'round!
The dirk was held point down in the targe hand, for stabbing whilst the stabbing hand and arm was protected by the targe.

Yes also Bob on the use of the targe.
It would be sad to be weighted down with something purely defensive! The wood boards of a targe are thin, two layers, like ply, and covered with leather. Often later ones had some iron or brass strips or rivets to reduce the effect of sword cuts.

I replied last on my phone and always get phat phinger words! LOL

 

[Artificer]

Dirk carried by Ensign Peter Grant, 42nd Foot, at Ticonderoga, 1758​

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail...t=42nd&pos=2&total=55&page=1&acc=1998-01-15-1

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Man, you guys do extraordinary work! Those are some nice looking dirks.

Were these ever military issue, or were they always privately purchased?

The ones shown all display beautiful workmanship, in basic architecture as well as ornamentation. This would lead one to believe that a dirk was a wealthy man’s accoutrement. Have any simpler ones survived? A back issue of the Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting had an article about “gralloching knives” from Scotland. If I remember correctly, these were in between the dirk and the stocking knife in size. I recall that one of the examples shown in the article had a very simple, natural antler handle with about a 7” blade. The blade did not have the degree of finish shown on the dirks above, yet it was nicely forged and had some file work on the back. I’ll try to dig out the article and post a picture if anybody is interested.

Thanks for posting your work, fellows. The quality of workmanship shown by some of our forum members is a continual source of amazement for me.

Notchy Bob

Notchy Bob,

Perhaps the Illustration you mean is the one I used years ago and copied/pasted here again?


We also have to remember that Biodags (Dirks) were intended as personal defense weapons, not for normal "knife" applications. The 18th century Scots had different designs for their Gralloching (Hunting) Knives. The three knives at left are hunting knives and the two middle ones would still be considered very practical for that use today.

Gus

 

[SOLANCO]

I had wrongly imagined dirks as daggers. These seem more like short swords. Very interesting.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Notchy Bob,

Perhaps the Illustration you mean is the one I used years ago and copied/pasted here again?


We also have to remember that Biodags (Dirks) were intended as personal defense weapons, not for normal "knife" applications. The 18th century Scots had different designs for their Gralloching (Hunting) Knives. The three knives at left are hunting knives and the two middle ones would still be considered very practical for that use today.

Gus

Gus,

Thank you for your comments and the picture! However, the knife and the images to which I was referring were in The Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting (CJAC), Vol. 11, No. 3 and Vol. 20, No. 1:




These are obviously the same knives as in the image you posted, but different pictures with slightly different captions. This is from CJAC Vol. 11-3:



... while this one is from CJAC Vol. 20-1:



Both were from articles by James Forman, who I assume also wrote the book that contained the image in your post. This is the first page of the article in CJAC 11-3:



The author's thesis in that article was that the gralloch knife was an evolutionary step as well as an intermediate size between the dirk (a fighting knife) and the sgian dubh, which he considered primarily decorative. His contention was that after the Scots were defeated at Culloden, the British Crown attempted to erase their culture, and dirks were evidently outlawed. However, hunting traditions continued, and the gralloching knife in the form he presented developed as both a practical and traditionally-styled tool.

I would like to suggest, though, that the blade on the larger antler-hafted gralloch knife in those images appears to have had a medieval seax in its ancestry.

Mr. Forman's article in CJAC 20-1 was entitled "The Evolution of the Sgian Dubh." The same author penned articles about the "Scottish Regimental Dirk" in CJAC Vol. 25-1 and 25-2, but I don't have those issues and can't comment on the articles.

As always, I appreciate your insight and contributions to the discussion.

Notchy Bob

 

[NeilMacleod]

Awesome Work! Been trying to find one for myself for some time now

 

[dtruex]

I made this one for my son quite a few years ago.

 

[Loja man]

Gus,

Thank you for your comments and the picture! However, the knife and the images to which I was referring were in The Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting (CJAC), Vol. 11, No. 3 and Vol. 20, No. 1:


View attachment 310651

These are obviously the same knives as in the image you posted, but different pictures with slightly different captions. This is from CJAC Vol. 11-3:

View attachment 310654

... while this one is from CJAC Vol. 20-1:

View attachment 310655

Both were from articles by James Forman, who I assume also wrote the book that contained the image in your post. This is the first page of the article in CJAC 11-3:

View attachment 310656

The author's thesis in that article was that the gralloch knife was an evolutionary step as well as an intermediate size between the dirk (a fighting knife) and the sgian dubh, which he considered primarily decorative. His contention was that after the Scots were defeated at Culloden, the British Crown attempted to erase their culture, and dirks were evidently outlawed. However, hunting traditions continued, and the gralloching knife in the form he presented developed as both a practical and traditionally-styled tool.

I would like to suggest, though, that the blade on the larger antler-hafted gralloch knife in those images appears to have had a medieval seax in its ancestry.

Mr. Forman's article in CJAC 20-1 was entitled "The Evolution of the Sgian Dubh." The same author penned articles about the "Scottish Regimental Dirk" in CJAC Vol. 25-1 and 25-2, but I don't have those issues and can't comment on the articles.

As always, I appreciate your insight and contributions to the discussion.

Notchy Bob

I agree the garlloch pictured looks very much like a seax!!

 

[Notchy Bob]

I made this one for my son quite a few years ago.

View attachment 310693

Outstanding work, @dtruex ! Excellent craftsmanship in steel, wood, and leather!

Notchy Bob

 

[Wncman]

I love dirks!! Here is one I made!! So were you just hoping for photos or did you have more to say about them?

That’s one heck of a job in it

 

[Artificer]

Gus,


The author's thesis in that article was that the gralloch knife was an evolutionary step as well as an intermediate size between the dirk (a fighting knife) and the sgian dubh, which he considered primarily decorative. His contention was that after the Scots were defeated at Culloden, the British Crown attempted to erase their culture, and dirks were evidently outlawed. However, hunting traditions continued, and the gralloching knife in the form he presented developed as both a practical and traditionally-styled tool.

I would like to suggest, though, that the blade on the larger antler-hafted gralloch knife in those images appears to have had a medieval seax in its ancestry.



Notchy Bob

Notchy Bob,

I've seen the seax looking dirk in a similar looking photo, but the description calls it one of four in a set of Gralloching (Hunting) knives as shown, with one of the set was actually an antler handled cleaver, of all things.

Another photo described the knife third from left in the pic below, as a common knife used by even the poor. In Highland Culture during the 17th and 18th centuries, women in the poorer classes were said to have always carried such a knife in a side split pocket in their skirts. Handles were mostly wood or perhaps bone. Sort of a large paring knife blade for preparing food, eating, general use and for self-defense.

It has been written during the 17th and 18th centuries until Culloden, the number one sport in the Highlands was raiding neighboring clans for revenge, cattle, goods and even sometimes capturing women for brides. Not sure how often the latter was done, though. If true, that would explain the self-defense use of such knives by women.

Gus