The Search for a Vintage Cornbread

[Loyalist Dave]

EGAD a good video but the old "myth". This version is rather elaborate in cooking steps.



I hear it repeated a lot, but I've never found anybody repeating this that has ever tried to use a forged hoe to make the cakes over a fire. Was the blade removed from the handle? Was there water present to cool the blade so it could once again be a tool, for if it was air cooled then it would likely have been softened, perhaps too soft and a ruined tool... not a healthy thing for a slave to do. I guess there was water since the food need lots of water. How many people per cooking hoe, or were there a lot of hoes used?

OR..., Was there a tool in the kitchen, also called a "hoe", because it had a shape similar to a garden hoe, and IT was used outside to bake the food?
See How the Hoe Cake (Most Likely) Got Its Name by Rod Cofield

OR..., is it a *******ization of a Native American word?

"Nookik" is an Eastern Woodland Native culture word for parched corn, that was then pounded into a flour. It's also called Psindamóoan, Tassmanáne, Gofio, and many other names by Native cultures throughout North America, and it was called pinole by the Spaniards, and rockahominy by Virginians. There are several documented methods for consumption of this essential survival food. One is straight dry powder, followed by a good quantity of water. Another is making a porridge out of it and water.


Now nookik, became in English, "nocake"...., which is what it was called in New England and it's a slight variation from that, to "hoecake". This complies with the principles found by the observations of the Grimm brothers (same guys as the fairy tales) of consonant shift as words cross into different cultures and are used over long periods of time. The porridge version when every thick could've been baked on a hot rock, no garden tools needed, and very easily could've been called hoecake by whites...

LD

 

[Sooty Scot]

At a Vous last year, I found a small, flat,(deeply pitted) forged iron shovel, about twice the span of my palm. It seems to me that it's a bit thick (and small) to use as a shovel, w/out the raised edges of an ash shovel.
I'd heard the "history" of Hoe Cake and was curious, so I cleaned and seasoned it, to try my luck.
The batter has to be pretty thick and dry to keep it from sliding off, but it makes a decent corn cake.
I'm away from home right now but, if this thread's still active, I'll post a picture.

 

[Eterry]

EGAD a good video but the old "myth". This version is rather elaborate in cooking steps.



I hear it repeated a lot, but I've never found anybody repeating this that has ever tried to use a forged hoe to make the cakes over a fire. Was the blade removed from the handle? Was there water present to cool the blade so it could once again be a tool, for if it was air cooled then it would likely have been softened, perhaps too soft and a ruined tool... not a healthy thing for a slave to do. I guess there was water since the food need lots of water. How many people per cooking hoe, or were there a lot of hoes used?

OR..., Was there a tool in the kitchen, also called a "hoe", because it had a shape similar to a garden hoe, and IT was used outside to bake the food?
See How the Hoe Cake (Most Likely) Got Its Name by Rod Cofield

OR..., is it a *******ization of a Native American word?

"Nookik" is an Eastern Woodland Native culture word for parched corn, that was then pounded into a flour. It's also called Psindamóoan, Tassmanáne, Gofio, and many other names by Native cultures throughout North America, and it was called pinole by the Spaniards, and rockahominy by Virginians. There are several documented methods for consumption of this essential survival food. One is straight dry powder, followed by a good quantity of water. Another is making a porridge out of it and water.


Now nookik, became in English, "nocake"...., which is what it was called in New England and it's a slight variation from that, to "hoecake". This complies with the principles found by the observations of the Grimm brothers (same guys as the fairy tales) of consonant shift as words cross into different cultures and are used over long periods of time. The porridge version when every thick could've been baked on a hot rock, no garden tools needed, and very easily could've been called hoecake by whites...

LD

I posted that video to show no milk or leavening was needed.

My father, who chopped cotton in the 30s, said it was common for several women to make small fires among any shade possible and use their hoe head, after removing the handle to cook on. One usually had a pot of beans. Maybe some buttermilk was available, but mostly water.
The men kept working, led by their "Driver" at the lead. The hoes were larger than what we use commonly today, forged in a shop I'm guessing.
IIRc metal is OK if left to cool, maybe softer. It only needed to cut weeds and chop 2 inches into the soil. Quenching would make it brittle.

Dad said the usual meal was hoe-cakes, red beans, and molasses.
He continued to chop cotton into the 50s. He said by then most carried a sandwich in wax paper, and some hard candy. He preferred lemon drops.
He ate hoe cakes until he died, I love them, it makes me homesick when I fix them.

Oh btw, I've never seen the mix as thin as PD makes them. Mom's were the consistency of pancake batter, which is what I strive for today.

 

[Eutycus]

How or why does one "remove the handle"? Maybe in the old days they didn't use rivets.

 

[Eterry]

Here's mom's recipe. I knew it was somewhere.

 

[Eterry]

How or why does one "remove the handle"? Maybe in the old days they didn't use rivets.

All the eye hoes we had, and I now have, don't use rivets. The handle is like a pick handle, larger at the head.
The head is about 8"×8". With the handle you couldn't lay it flat to cook on.

Every TDCJ Unit has them, they do a decent job of weedeating the perimeter of the fence. Also turning small fields if no tractor is handy, and of course chopping the fields. I've seen them shine like silver after several days use.
As a teen I chopped peanuts, 5 acres a day, made $5/acre.

I recall as a kid dad telling us boys he'd buy us new hoe handles for Christmas... lol

 

[Mike Keel]

TRY OLD FASHIONED Hoe cake (hot water cornbread) Cooked by slaves and sharecroppers on the blade of their hoe https://www.thespruceeats.com/old-f...e,simply delicious Southern dinnertime staple.

 

[Eutycus]

I am familiar with field forces and hoe squads at TDCJ units. I was on the payroll for 20 years at a few of them. At the prison, the hoe squads called their hoes Aggies. Anyone know why?

 

[Eutycus]

Sorry I was thinking of the little hoes when I mentioned rivets

 

[Eterry]

Sorry I was thinking of the little hoes when I mentioned rivets

Thanks for posting the Eye Hoe on the right.
You can see, if you had nothing else, if shiny like used heavily, it would suffice to cook on. As dad said, nearly every wife or daughter of the hands would break from work and prepare a meal.
Often Dad was the "Driver", although he said he never drove the hands, they followed him. If they didn't/ couldn't keep up they were replaced. He said there were always plenty of hands waiting at the fence line, for someone to quit/ be fired.

He was way past 50 when my brother and I, bull strong from farm work, chopped peanuts with him. Brother and I took one row at a time. Dad took 2 rows, finished before us, and helped us up.
I asked him how he could chop that fast? He said if it was all that stood between you and starving you worked "like fighting fire!"

Btw, the Driver made $2 a day. Hands made less, depending on Their skill with the hoe.

 

[Eterry]

I am familiar with field forces and hoe squads at TDCJ units. I was on the payroll for 20 years at a few of them. At the prison, the hoe squads called their hoes Aggies. Anyone know why?

Then you're probably familiar with the TDCJ 4- step?

 

[Brokennock]

OR..., Was there a tool in the kitchen, also called a "hoe", because it had a shape similar to a garden hoe,

I seem to recall someone years ago finding and posting evidence for this. Probably our old friend Spence, or maybe Keith.

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

If you can find it, roasted corn meal is a different flavor.
I picked up 2 bags of ground corn at a Washington GA Mule Days Event on old timer was running a hit or miss engine powered mill

 

[Beaverman2]

Here is some onfo from Townsends



and hoe cakes

 

[Bark-eater]

I guess it veers into bushcraft, but I would assume that the farther off the supply lines, the more foraging would be used to "fill in".

First thing I thought of was cattail and dandelion root flours. According to google cattail pollen was also used as a flour and you can buy dandelion flour for $10-20 a pound online.

The other thing I though of was the use of Schmaltz aka chicken grease and duck or goose fat. I'm not sure how long rendered poultry fat would last away from home, but would be available any where you could get eggs...

 

[brushblind]

The best CB I've had in a long time is Krusteaz southern style. I know it's not what your looking for but it's easy and not loaded with sugar.

 

[waksupi]

The best corn I have found for making flour or meal, is Painted Mountain Indian corn, developed by buckskinner Dave Christinsen (sp) down in Big Timber. It is a 100 day corn, usually bearing one ear per stock in this area. Two ears is rare. Size of ears seem to vary, up to around 9" in good conditions.
If growing for heirloom, it MUST be kept very far from any other corn variety. All corn will easily cross breed.

https://www.smartgardener.com/plants/1097-corn-painted-mountain/overview

 

[BillinOregon]

Bill: Mules and hit-and-miss engines. Does it get any better than this? I think not. Eutycus, I am now on the watch for an eye hoe for purposes of experimental archaeology. I just might find one at the monthly flea market in Buffalo Gap.
Waksupi, guessing if Painted Mountain makes good meal it ought to parch well, too, eh?

 

[Eutycus]

Bill: Mules and hit-and-miss engines. Does it get any better than this? I think not. Eutycus, I am now on the watch for an eye hoe for purposes of experimental archaeology. I just might find one at the monthly flea market in Buffalo Gap.
Waksupi, guessing if Painted Mountain makes good meal it ought to parch well, too, eh?

This one actually belonged to TDCJ. Some inmate broke the handle and a Field Lt. gave it to me. Sad, on some units they disbanded the hoe squads.There is probably a warehouse full of hoes somewhere.

 

[Eutycus]

I don't wish to hijack this thread and I'll let us get back to the subject of cornbread. But I got a question, Speaking of old hoes, is there anything or anyway of revitalizing or preserving the hickory handles on farm implements?