Watching TV this morning I saw an ad for a muzzleloader specific scope with little reticle dots to allow you to shoot out to 250 yds. What has the sport become? These are the guys that cry, at least here in PA, that it is unfair that our ML season is flintlock and open sights. PA did however give in to them and our early season for antlerless deer is open to any muzzleloader. I for one sure hope that the trend doesn't keep going. I don't need all muzzleloader seasons to be for flintlocks but for traditional muzzleloaders would be nice. Let them use there inlines and fancy scopes during the regular season because it is muzzleloading in name only! OK I feel better I just needed to vent a little.
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The state of muzzleloading today
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I used to worry about such things, now I don't care. I do wish that they would put them in the regular gun season though. It is like the crossbow in archery season though. I do what makes me happy hunting. If these hunters feel good telling people they hunt with a Ml'er that is really a Ml'ing c-fire or a crossbow that they think is a bow, let them. They are the ones that have to sleep with thier dirty little secrets of 1/2 truths, I don't. :surrender: Oh yeah,let's not forget that using the excuses of being 1/2 blind, or too weak, unfair to the game (poor hunting ability/shooter) etc. does make it ok to use hunting tools that give them long range,optical and mechanical advantages, that they don't discuss though to their unknowing friends. :bull: This should probably all be deleted. :nono:
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Local and state laws can be changed a lot easier that fed regs. It's bloody sometimes, but a bunch of concerned sportsmen can often get things done closer to home.
But at the fed level it's more like stopping a freight train with a bed pillow.
I'm scared spitless of the emerging fed trends about powder shipment and storage by individuals. Also about requiring of "lead free" projectiles on fed lands, as I read somewhere is being proposed or required on certain lands in California.
Much as I believe scopes and metalic cartridges have no place in primitive seasons, that's not near the threat to our sport that powder and lead regs will be.
But at the fed level it's more like stopping a freight train with a bed pillow.
I'm scared spitless of the emerging fed trends about powder shipment and storage by individuals. Also about requiring of "lead free" projectiles on fed lands, as I read somewhere is being proposed or required on certain lands in California.
Much as I believe scopes and metalic cartridges have no place in primitive seasons, that's not near the threat to our sport that powder and lead regs will be.
The time is probably long past to expect primitve ML seasons of any real reflection of the term, as not enough people saw the train a commin' way back when they started feeling the need to build a better mousetrap, the best one can hope for now is a continued oppertunity to use a real ML with prb for hunting if that is your preference, there is way to much money and faulted science behind the nodern stuff to put thing back to what it was intended to be, ( a hunt with an older technology, which reduces the chance of succes and replicates the experience from the past) I like all kinds of guns but do feel there is a "time and place" issue that has gone askew, but we are going to have to live with it.
Guest
When I lived in Ohio I went hunting with my ML during regular gun season. Ohio has the worst time set aside for traditional ML season. It's after all the deer have been hunted by the regular gun hunters and everything is laying low, or, it's to dang cold that even the deer know better than to get out of their beds. In Ohio the regular or modern gun season is the best time to go. Even then you have a bunch of idiots walking through your stand hollering and rattling milk jugs with gravel in them. To bad there is no open season on those types.
In every sport, there are always those who want to "improve" it. Scoped smokeless powder inline muzzleloaders are an example. I hunt with a flintlock muzzleloader even during the centerfire rifle season. I meet hunters in the woods carrying scoped .30-06 bolt rifles and they must think me strange because I look like someone that just walked out of the early nineteenth century.
At my age (59) I get more satisfaction out of the manner in which I kill my game and hunt my game than in killing it. I have always prefered to get up close and personal to my game like you have to do with a muzzleloader rather than snipe it at 250 yards plus with a repeating rifle.
There will always be some of us that prefer to do things the old-fashioned way. Traditonal muzzleloading will continue to grow into the future. To each his own!
At my age (59) I get more satisfaction out of the manner in which I kill my game and hunt my game than in killing it. I have always prefered to get up close and personal to my game like you have to do with a muzzleloader rather than snipe it at 250 yards plus with a repeating rifle.
There will always be some of us that prefer to do things the old-fashioned way. Traditonal muzzleloading will continue to grow into the future. To each his own!
Never having been interested in special ML seasons, I have always hunted during the general gun seasons.
Frankly, I hunt with the SL because that is what I enjoy doing and have never felt handicapped by doing so.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken
Frankly, I hunt with the SL because that is what I enjoy doing and have never felt handicapped by doing so.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken
akapennypincher
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Arizona has a ML Hunting SEASON with basically ZERO RESTRICTION on Type of ML. Basically if it loads from the FRONT, it is a ML.... :surrender:
paulvallandigham
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In Illinois, the ML season has usually run in December, after the regular Gun Deer Season in November and the first weekend in December. Its cold, and the deer will yard up if there are early snows.
I have always hunted with my ML during the gun season, although I have a ported slug barrel for a modern shotgun that is so accurate, I tend to spoil myself if its below freezing, or is raining out, and use the shotgun instead of my ML. Its a case of solving a problem two different ways at the same time, and not realizing I would be placed in the position of having to make a choice. Now, I am in a worse position, because I now own a .20 ga. fowler I want to use to take deer, too! I may have to buy a permit for the separate ML season yet.
Worse than that, Illinois changed its regulations to let hunters use handguns during the regular gun season, too. We still have an extra handgun DOE ONLY season in early January in limited counties, where populations need to be thinned more than can occur with just the regular gun and archery seasons, but now we can use just about anything during the regular gun season. Since that permit gives us 7 days of hunting, vs. 3 days for the special ML season, I never thought of it as much of a choice.
I have always hunted with my ML during the gun season, although I have a ported slug barrel for a modern shotgun that is so accurate, I tend to spoil myself if its below freezing, or is raining out, and use the shotgun instead of my ML. Its a case of solving a problem two different ways at the same time, and not realizing I would be placed in the position of having to make a choice. Now, I am in a worse position, because I now own a .20 ga. fowler I want to use to take deer, too! I may have to buy a permit for the separate ML season yet.
Worse than that, Illinois changed its regulations to let hunters use handguns during the regular gun season, too. We still have an extra handgun DOE ONLY season in early January in limited counties, where populations need to be thinned more than can occur with just the regular gun and archery seasons, but now we can use just about anything during the regular gun season. Since that permit gives us 7 days of hunting, vs. 3 days for the special ML season, I never thought of it as much of a choice.
Rat Trapper
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I often carry my muzzle loader during the general gun season here in Wisconsin. When our doe seasons opens it's always a muzzle loader hunt for me. Our muzzle loader season is 10 days long and after the general season. And this year we have a 4 day doe season after the ML season. The general season is 9 days long. Wisconsin has lots of deer, extra tags are cheap and last year between my wife and I we shot 15 deer including archery season. Sure am glad I'm retired, so I will not have work getting in the way of going to the woods. Everyone including our dogs eat venison at our house.
I doubt we can change what's happening.
It is being driven by marketing and states wanting more revenue from hunters.
I have to sell modern ml's-that is all we carry.
Some of those guns out perform the 30-30, 45-70, 38-55, some are very close to 308 ballistics, not to mention 8mm Mauser, 303 Brit, and 7.62x54R.
And yet in Ohio we can not use a modern rifle.
PRIMITIVE MUZZLE LOADER SEASON NEEDS TO STAY PRIMITIVE.
It is being driven by marketing and states wanting more revenue from hunters.
I have to sell modern ml's-that is all we carry.
Some of those guns out perform the 30-30, 45-70, 38-55, some are very close to 308 ballistics, not to mention 8mm Mauser, 303 Brit, and 7.62x54R.
And yet in Ohio we can not use a modern rifle.
PRIMITIVE MUZZLE LOADER SEASON NEEDS TO STAY PRIMITIVE.
Guest
I wonder about that too. Especially how the game regs for deer are being written here in PA. Someday soon we will be able to use a flame thrower for deer in this state or maybe landmines.
Several years ago in our county in Ohio a Conservation Officer charged a hunter in primative hunting season with a violation because he jumped out of a tree onto a buck's back and cut the deer's throat with a knife killing it. The judge dismissed the charge and reprimanded the CO for making the charge saying "how much more primative can you get killing a deer with a knife?".
A couple years later that same CO charged a primative hunter with killing a deer with a flintlock pistol and failure to promptly tag his deer. The hunter shot the deer with a flintlock rifle and wounded it and fired a second shot with the flintlock pistol killing it and the deer fell into the Great Miami River and floated downstream and the hunter followed it until it stopped in shallow water near a bridge and he waded out and brought the deer to shore. The CO watched from the bridge and charged the hunter for not promptly tagging the deer. The same judge reprimanded the CO again and dismissed the charge. The judge asked the CO if it was legal to use a double barrel muzzleloader to hunt and the CO said it was and the judge said he could see no difference between the rifle and pistol than a double rifle. He also determined the hunter did the best he could to retrieve his deer and tag it as soon as possible.
A couple years later that same CO charged a primative hunter with killing a deer with a flintlock pistol and failure to promptly tag his deer. The hunter shot the deer with a flintlock rifle and wounded it and fired a second shot with the flintlock pistol killing it and the deer fell into the Great Miami River and floated downstream and the hunter followed it until it stopped in shallow water near a bridge and he waded out and brought the deer to shore. The CO watched from the bridge and charged the hunter for not promptly tagging the deer. The same judge reprimanded the CO again and dismissed the charge. The judge asked the CO if it was legal to use a double barrel muzzleloader to hunt and the CO said it was and the judge said he could see no difference between the rifle and pistol than a double rifle. He also determined the hunter did the best he could to retrieve his deer and tag it as soon as possible.
On another forum I read that at least one hunter was looking at buying a traditional sidelock rifle to hunt with.
It seems the State he lives in has revised the law making those modern things illegal for Primitive hunts.
Who says we can't get the laws changed to keep Primitive Hunting Primitive? All it takes is people working with the folks who write the laws to change them so that the guns being used are truly Primitive Traditional style guns.
If the makers of the law want to know what Primitive Traditional style guns are, refer them to this website.
zonie
It seems the State he lives in has revised the law making those modern things illegal for Primitive hunts.
Who says we can't get the laws changed to keep Primitive Hunting Primitive? All it takes is people working with the folks who write the laws to change them so that the guns being used are truly Primitive Traditional style guns.
If the makers of the law want to know what Primitive Traditional style guns are, refer them to this website.
zonie
rudy parnell
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Some of the folks around where I come from think that the whole hunting RAGE is just simply going to fizzle out.
They say that it won't be in our lifetime....but it's coming. The thinking is that the Commerical Hunting Bubble is just going to "pop".
There is just so many times and places and new exciting hunts that you can put on video. The new guy has been tricked into buying that special charcoal suit and scent balms and gps. He bought the Blackpowder Gun that shoots everytime you pull the trigger and cleans itself. He's got half a dozen deer stands and his 5yr old kid has killed a deer.....
Gotta make a bunch of money to go where the big one is....Gotta have that new gaget...Gotta get that first deer mounted....gotta have one facing to the left...gotta have one facing to the right.
While mama don't eat deer meat....Mama don't won't that deer head on the wall... and Mama is pretty sure she ain't wearing the t-shirt with the LOGO about speaking the language.
Never mind that there ain't nowhere to hunt. And if you do happen to wind up somewhere you'll have the game warden or the locals watching you. Or you'll have the"club" to deal with.
This hunting thing is a money thing....and when the money drys up there's a good chance that it'll be over. I hear people that hunt ... folks talk about how they need to kill deer to eat....but they don't eat'um. The meat goes to the freezer and then to the bad and they feed the dogs or "clean out the freezer". Hunters ain't out in hunting camps and living off the meat that they kill. They stay in hotels...and they get the meat processed and then they eat a bite or two and that's it. I remember when I started hunting you gave shares of meat to the land owners and their neighbors. You carried them a fruit basket or a pint of liquor. People was glad to get it. Now they just want the money.
I may be off on a tangent here, but this is how I see it. I can kill way more deer than I can eat and I can't even give the stuff away...that is processed packaged meat. The young people don't won't it. They can't hardly make ends meet but they ain't going to feed their kids no deer meat. And the old people I know don't cook...they'd rather go out to Bogangles on Seniors Day and eat chicken.
Muzzleloader Hunting will survive at the end of the day, because it has value and because Traditional Gun Owners keep the flame burning. Maybe this hunting thing is travelling in a cycle. Who knows?.Perhaps the best is yet to be! I certainly hope so.
They say that it won't be in our lifetime....but it's coming. The thinking is that the Commerical Hunting Bubble is just going to "pop".
There is just so many times and places and new exciting hunts that you can put on video. The new guy has been tricked into buying that special charcoal suit and scent balms and gps. He bought the Blackpowder Gun that shoots everytime you pull the trigger and cleans itself. He's got half a dozen deer stands and his 5yr old kid has killed a deer.....
Gotta make a bunch of money to go where the big one is....Gotta have that new gaget...Gotta get that first deer mounted....gotta have one facing to the left...gotta have one facing to the right.
While mama don't eat deer meat....Mama don't won't that deer head on the wall... and Mama is pretty sure she ain't wearing the t-shirt with the LOGO about speaking the language.
Never mind that there ain't nowhere to hunt. And if you do happen to wind up somewhere you'll have the game warden or the locals watching you. Or you'll have the"club" to deal with.
This hunting thing is a money thing....and when the money drys up there's a good chance that it'll be over. I hear people that hunt ... folks talk about how they need to kill deer to eat....but they don't eat'um. The meat goes to the freezer and then to the bad and they feed the dogs or "clean out the freezer". Hunters ain't out in hunting camps and living off the meat that they kill. They stay in hotels...and they get the meat processed and then they eat a bite or two and that's it. I remember when I started hunting you gave shares of meat to the land owners and their neighbors. You carried them a fruit basket or a pint of liquor. People was glad to get it. Now they just want the money.
I may be off on a tangent here, but this is how I see it. I can kill way more deer than I can eat and I can't even give the stuff away...that is processed packaged meat. The young people don't won't it. They can't hardly make ends meet but they ain't going to feed their kids no deer meat. And the old people I know don't cook...they'd rather go out to Bogangles on Seniors Day and eat chicken.
Muzzleloader Hunting will survive at the end of the day, because it has value and because Traditional Gun Owners keep the flame burning. Maybe this hunting thing is travelling in a cycle. Who knows?.Perhaps the best is yet to be! I certainly hope so.
Zonie said:
Zonie I agree with you. I write and call the DNR and my congresman, Etc quite often. I think it would be good to get together state by state and start writing. I'm live in Minnesota and if we here on this forum from each state would write it may surpise us. We can talk all we want here but until they start getting swamped with mail and calls they will not do anything. My thoughts
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