Thinking about a Canoe Gun

[bill perry]

I just finished my 20ga dubble flint lock looks great but has a lot of tiny flaws but no one will see unless they look close.

 

[Homesteader]

Let's see it!

 

[colmoultrie]

Here's a little 26" musketoon or Canoe gun...

and being used as a canoe gun...

Of course, the more modern canoes don't taste as good as the traditional ones; they leave fiberglass splinters between your teeth...

 

[BillinOregon]

Colmoultrie: I like that gun -- and that target! Wow what a pretty piece of wood!

:applause:

This thread has me considering one of the Indian-built clunkers for a donor, to be whittled and slimmed into canoe conformation ...
:hmm:

 

[matt denison]

"Indian-built clunkers"

Beware: once a clunker, always a clunker. Why not start with good parts that will make a good gun that you can be proud of and will have some value when finished? Most or all of the guns shown so far are fine looking, appear to be well built. They will serve their owners well. Just because they are "diminutive" in size doesn't mean they aren't real guns.

 

[BillinOregon]

Laffindog, funny you should make this observation. I was just thinking about it, and for just a few bucks more, I could get a kit of much better parts from North Star West or Sitting Fox and have something with intrinsic value, if I did my part.

 

[RjSixgun]

Not a smoothbore but why not a CS Richmond musketoon? Ive made one out of a repro 1861 Springfield.....very accurate little 58 caliber

 

[eaglesnester]

shoot up here in the northern interior of B.C. I put on my waders, go into the thick swamp and wait. pretty soon along comes old bullwinkel, splash splash splash. pretty hard to miss em. with my long barreled flinter all I got to do is poke it through the alders with the muzzzle right up againem and pull the trigger. Now the fun begins.

are you sure u know how to skin grizz pilgrim?

 

[Okwaho]

About 50 years ago I stopped in York,Pa. to show a probable Tenn.flint consignment to Joe Kindig Jr.and get his opinion on it. He told me it was western Pa.gun worth about $300.00 He asked me if I was interested in a good Pa. rifle and offered me an unsigned Geo. Eister for about $6,000.00 worth about $20 or 30,000 today. I told him I couldn't afford it and he asked how many guns I had and I told him that I had several Winchesters. He then told me I should sell all I owned and buy one pearl of great value- great advice that I should have taken. I never forgot his advice I let my last Kentucky go last year and am now in another area of interest. Matt offers good advice today. Those pearls are still out there.

 

[colmoultrie]

You've mentioned the Kindig story before. I understand your point, and there is some wisdom in what Kindig said, but I suppose it depends on what you consider a pearl. A Geo. Eister is certainly a pearl, but it is a pearl that will not go into the field or to the range. It is beautiful to look at and handle, but it's monetary value only comes into question when you part with it - and if your concern was gain on investment, then the $6,000 to $30,000 increase isn't much over 50 yrs. You'd have done better to buy a few percussion Colts or CW rifled muskets. :stir:

I can and do take my reblued Winchester '95 carbine out, and I enjoy my Allen Martin or Leonard Day both as first-class firearms and as works of art in the spirit of history. Are they pearls? Well, I'm partial to firearms I can both admire and use, so perhaps they're garnets rather than pearls - and that's fine with me.

I will, however, agree with you that buying a reputable gun/parts from someone like Northstar West or the above makers will bring far more enjoyment in the long run than a cobbled-together piece that may prove more frustrating than fun and will never quite look right.

 

[Okwaho]

I will, however, agree with you that buying a reputable gun/parts from someone like Northstar West or the above makers will bring far more enjoyment in the long run than a cobbled-together piece that may prove more frustrating than fun and will never quite look right.

[/quote]

Matt's statement that a clunker is always a clunker is absolutely correct and this was the point I intended to make.I used the example from Kindig as an extreme as I think probably did Matt and whether we are talking about an Eister or a cobbled up example,our point is the same. Get the best you can afford,and always work yourself up the ladder of acquisition.As Matt said a clunker is always a clunker and who knows you may conceivably find a pearl.I have seen it happen and on this and other boards

 

[Grumpa]

$6,000 50 years ago, would equate to about $47,000 in today's dollars.

However, most of us, yourself included, are not in this for the money. The most important consideration isn't in the financial equation. Enjoyment, and pride of ownership trump $ 'most every time.

Hopefully,you get what you pay for. But Fortune does occasionally smile on us - how many times I have seen on this Forum, members making exquisite firearms and accoutrements that are gifted to friends or family members who will appreciate them. And members who write of buying an item from someone who could have gotten more $ elsewhere, but knew that the member would get much use and enjoyment from the item.

Just a few thoughts, mostly ruminatin' with myself.

 

[colmoultrie]

[/quote]
Get the best you can afford,and always work yourself up the ladder of acquisition.As Matt said a clunker is always a clunker and who knows you may conceivably find a pearl.I have seen it happen and on this and other boards[/quote]

We'll certainly agree there; I was just pointing out that people's perceptions of pearls differ, and they also change over time. Whether you like pearls, muscle cars, longrifles, or canoe guns, there are good and bad pieces out there, and you'll probably be much happier with the good ones in the long run.

I also, however, love Jim Supica's advice in a Guns Annual about a dozen years back - learn to love rebluing, bobbed barrels, non-factory engraving and sights, and you will be less stressed, and your wallet will be heavier. Especially when it comes to factory mass-produced guns, like Colt percussion revolvers and later, I actually prefer a piece with good, honest use, (not abuse) to a pristine safe queen. There's more of a sense of history in a gun that's seen honest use.

All of that is saying, I guess, get good parts; build yourself or have built a reliable piece that is as close to historic examples as you can (or want), and then have fun with it. Don't worry if it picks up a few dents, dings, and scratches; that's part and parcel of a canoe gun.

 

[Skychief]

I like my two brown Bess gun and my long rifles but do like these and this is what I hunt with.

Tinker2, I have to hear more about this short tradegun of yours! I sent you a PT.

This little percussion "speaks" to me!

Please tell us all you can about it if you don't mind.

Feel free to PT me if you would like.




William Alexander

 

[Tinker2]

Hi Matt

The percussion gun in the photo.

Barrel length to the back of breach at the start of the tang =21 inches
About 18 gage. .640 bore
Barrel is held in the stock by the tang screw and a 2 inch rawhide band only.

Lock is an Enfield lock

Stock is walnut, gun is 37 inches overall, length of pull is 14 inches

65 tacks, it is garment tacks NOT upholstery tacks.

31 garment tacks on the left side, turtle design on the butt
26 garment tacks on the right side, cross design on the butt
8 garment tacks on the corporal line (bottom of the stock)

Butt plate is a strip of elk leather

Basically a cut down Enfield smooth bore with some tweaks and mods

I would be pleased to answer any more questions you may have
If I can be of any help in any way in creating what you want, just ask.

PT sent


William Alexander

 

[coloradoclyde]

Cute! :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Here's a little 26" musketoon or Canoe gun...

and being used as a canoe gun...

Of course, the more modern canoes don't taste as good as the traditional ones; they leave fiberglass splinters between your teeth...

Ok, I have never been a big fan of tiger maple or canoe guns.......but you just broke both barriers for me. In fact I think you all have regarding canoe guns. :hatsoff:


Opps! almost forgot ...that's not a fiberglass canoe. :grin:

 

[Darto]

I just *had* to google imgages for 'davey crocket bike':

 

[Rat]

"Coach gun" might be a more accurate term....and those did indeed "exist" without debate. I don't think such a gun would be purposefully cut down to be more handy in a canoe, (a canoe can outrun a swimming bear or moose) as then it would be a bit less handy to hunt with, but not saying you can't hunt with one, but I think most of us would favor at least a 30" barrel for hunting. And for sure, barrels sometimes burst towards the muzzle, so of course one would cut it down, maybe for a "cabin" gun.

The short barrel does not limit "how much" powder you can burn, or limit velocity that much. It's just that it takes MORE powder to get more velocity, than it does for a long barrel. That does indeed increase muzzle blast and flash. Know what I mean? If you have to put 150 grains in the 20" barrel to match the velocity of 80 grains in a 40" barrel, you WILL get more muzzle flash and blast, and more recoil both from the heavier charge, and the lighter weight of the gun.

I'd love to have a brown bess "canoe" gun. I'd use it for trekking, long hikes in the woods I hunt when the hunting seasons are closed. Yep, I'd put 150 grains behind a ball, and then if Grizz contested the trail I'd feel warm and safe and fuzzy. It probably would not make a bad grouse gun, although where I live black bear opens at the same time, so I'd prefer my Bess carbine in case I did see a bear, or more likely take my Jeager for bear and a pistol for grouse. Berry-picking season might be another time to carry such a gun, I'd feel safe from grizz with it, and of course the cool factor is through the roof.

 

[Dave Orchard]

If you are fortunate enough to be able to access hunting areas by canoe, or have legs that won't carry you far so that you are "canoe dependant", or just like to hunt from the water, a short-barreled gun is much easier to handle & reload while kneeling or sitting on a canoe thwart.

Re sight radius: my 26" fusil has a rear sight just back of the wedding band, far enough fwd. that I can bring it into focus despite old eyes/lack of accommodation of focus we take for granted when young.
It is plenty accurate for the ranges I will shoot at game.

Re "whippiness"/muzzle-light/butt-heavy:
Poacher-Stock your gun(skeletonize your buttstock.
If HC concerns you, have a look at THE PACKINGHAM GUNS, old illustrations, the few accounts that mention hunting implements of "the lower classes".
How many poachers were amongst those who were transported to the colonies? Is it feasible some would have adapted the guns they obtained once they gained their freedom one way or another?
The quote would hold true for non-Gypsy countrymen who were well-acquainted with snares & subsistence hunting already.
"Transportation of Gypsies to the New World was like giving birds the sky."

If plans do not go awry, my poacher-stocked early 1700 style 24 ga w/26" barrel will be carried in and shot from one of John Lindman's best;-) (www.barkcanoe.com)
Perhaps the mode of transport will make up for sketchy documentation?
Dave