Thinking about getting an Indian Baker rifle.

[fireman1]

I am considering getting an Indian made Baker rifle. I have read up on them over the years and gone through the pro's and cons of it all. If I get one, I want to get one through Loyalist Arms. They seem to have the best reputation on the forum.

I have a few questions about it though.

Who can I send it off to so that I can have a proper .62 cal. rifled barrel installed?
Has anyone had this done?
Are you happy with the results?

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks!!

 

[curator]

Ed Rayl was once rebarreling these guns. I don't know if he is still doing it. You might contact him and see if this service is still available. Ed Rayl, p.o. box 91,18 Otter Lane, Gassaway, WV 26624, ph. # 304-364-8269

I have a Loyalist Arms Baker rifle that I bought 15 or so years ago when the "Sharpe's Rifles" series was on the telly. It worked fine as a smooth bore but I wanted the full rifleman experience so I got a "replacement" barrel from TOW and made my gun into a switch-barrel. I managed to make a breech plug that was compatible with the standing breech of the Baker, installed a touch hole liner, and soldered on barrel tennons. I cheated on the sights by installing a repro US musket sight that I also soldered on. I did not install the bayonet mount.

My replacement barrel has 1 in 66" twist rifling instead of the original 1 in 96" and shoots patched .600 round balls quite accurately well past 100 yards. I also spend a little time thinning and refinishing the stock to look a bit more original. I am quite pleased with the gun as it does everything i wanted it to do. Blair from Loyalist Arms must have spent some time tuning the lock as mine seems much smoother compared to a friend's Baker bought elsewhere.

 

[TFoley]

One of our fellow shooters has a smooth-bore Indian-made near-replica Baker rifle, AND a very high-cost and long-awaited replication by a well-known maker of such things over here in England. Earlier this year he had them both out for a bit of fresh air, and although they both looked identical at about ten feet, one of them sparked like a mad thing and fired every time, even after twelve shots with a not-too good quality powder. Accuracy was so-so at 50m - all twelve shots were inside 8 inches. The other one sulked like a disappointed movie-star and went off, grudgingly, about one try in four. Accucracy was marginally better, but not by much, but then, half an hour, he'd only fired three shots, after which he gave up.

We were all very surprised to find out that one had cost £500, and other, £5000, and that the economy smoothbore version was by far the better shooter of the two, in spite of the costy version being rifled. Demonstrating the lock, it was instantly clear that the cheap Indian-made lock was a far better sparker, and faster, than the other. I jokingly remarked that just changing the locks over might improve things somewhat, but all I got for that was a snooty stare.

 

[Straekat]

It's not a Baker, but close.....I bought an Indian copy of a Prussian 1740's era Jaeger. I'm too lazy at the moment to take an actual photo of mine, but will if there's enough interest. I'm thinking of having a replacement barrel made that can make this useable.

This is likely the type of rifle first used by the Royal Americans during the F&I War based on Ahearn's book on British military rifles, and then later likely to have been used as the basis for the 1776-pattern British rifle.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ed Rayl was once rebarreling these guns. I don't know if he is still doing it. You might contact him and see if this service is still available. Ed Rayl, p.o. box 91,18 Otter Lane, Gassaway, WV 26624, ph. # 304-364-8269

I have a Loyalist Arms Baker rifle that I bought 15 or so years ago when the "Sharpe's Rifles" series was on the telly. It worked fine as a smooth bore but I wanted the full rifleman experience so I got a "replacement" barrel from TOW and made my gun into a switch-barrel. I managed to make a breech plug that was compatible with the standing breech of the Baker, installed a touch hole liner, and soldered on barrel tennons. I cheated on the sights by installing a repro US musket sight that I also soldered on. I did not install the bayonet mount.

My replacement barrel has 1 in 66" twist rifling instead of the original 1 in 96" and shoots patched .600 round balls quite accurately well past 100 yards. I also spend a little time thinning and refinishing the stock to look a bit more original. I am quite pleased with the gun as it does everything i wanted it to do. Blair from Loyalist Arms must have spent some time tuning the lock as mine seems much smoother compared to a friend's Baker bought elsewhere.

I wouldn't go for an Indian made Baker Rifle.

1. The cost of the rifle is around 600-700 $, the barrel will add an additional $250-300.

2. You'll need to fit the barrel, as it will not be of the exact same dimensions, possible gunsmithing labor costs.

I would get a TRS kit and have a much more genuine weapon that will be more serviceable and hold its value.

 

[FlinterNick]

Ed Rayl was once rebarreling these guns. I don't know if he is still doing it. You might contact him and see if this service is still available. Ed Rayl, p.o. box 91,18 Otter Lane, Gassaway, WV 26624, ph. # 304-364-8269

I have a Loyalist Arms Baker rifle that I bought 15 or so years ago when the "Sharpe's Rifles" series was on the telly. It worked fine as a smooth bore but I wanted the full rifleman experience so I got a "replacement" barrel from TOW and made my gun into a switch-barrel. I managed to make a breech plug that was compatible with the standing breech of the Baker, installed a touch hole liner, and soldered on barrel tennons. I cheated on the sights by installing a repro US musket sight that I also soldered on. I did not install the bayonet mount.

My replacement barrel has 1 in 66" twist rifling instead of the original 1 in 96" and shoots patched .600 round balls quite accurately well past 100 yards. I also spend a little time thinning and refinishing the stock to look a bit more original. I am quite pleased with the gun as it does everything i wanted it to do. Blair from Loyalist Arms must have spent some time tuning the lock as mine seems much smoother compared to a friend's Baker bought elsewhere.

Ed Rayl still makes the baker barrel, but his waiting list is around 18 months.

Coltaine makes one too, Ed's is a little heavier but not significantly.

 

[FlinterNick]

I am considering getting an Indian made Baker rifle. I have read up on them over the years and gone through the pro's and cons of it all. If I get one, I want to get one through Loyalist Arms. They seem to have the best reputation on the forum.

I have a few questions about it though.

Who can I send it off to so that I can have a proper .62 cal. rifled barrel installed?
Has anyone had this done?
Are you happy with the results?

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks!!

Other things to consider about an Indian made Baker Rifle or Indian made Jaeger Rifle..... these are cheaply made reproductions based on very high quality expensive rifles. Not to say Indian made guns are not good guns, I've seen plenty of nice ones and plenty of very bad ones. Buying an Indian made musket or smoothbore is ok because part of the idea of a military musket was lessening manufacturing costs. The Indian made 3rd pattern Brown Bess in my opinion is a great option as they're close to the originals in wood grades and overall presentation. Trade guns are another good idea, many of these were made very cheaply with low grade woods such as oak, pine and birch.

However the Baker rifle or Jaeger rifle should be a work of art, with no corners cut. I would just a long as wait to bid on a used one by Pedersoli hunter Jaeger or a custom build rather than spend $700 for a gun that looks like a wall hanger rather than a very Nice hunting piece.

Remember when you replace the barrel you will incur alterations to the gun; the barrel is around $300 and the installation tang drilling and counter sink, barrel key alignment, dovetailing, and vent liner drilling, tapping and countersinking all costs around $250-500. So in the end you're really almost spending $1500 for a gun that won't hold even close to that value.

I'd recommend getting a kit from TRS for around $1,100 then contact Dave from Lodgewood, Clay Smith, Nate Mckenzie or even Jess Melott at TRS for the custom build it will be around $1,200-2000; very expensive however you're gun will hold that value and possibly even appreciate and you'll have an excellent reproduction and fine hunting rifle. It would be worth the investment.

 

[Straekat]

The barrel on my Jaeger is 1.25 inches at the breech, and exactly 1 inch across the flats at the muzzle, with a straight taper there are already barrels on the market that come very close to those specs. Adding a breech plug can be done by the barrel maker, while shaping the tang, barrel tenons added by either dovetailing or using soldered tenons can be done at home if you have some basic hand skills and the patience.

The barrel I have wasn't made by using tubular steel. It was made from square stock that had the flats milled and tapered, and bored. I thought about going the insert route, but like the idea of having drop in barrels so it can be used primarily as a rifle or smooth bore.

I don't mind having a functional and utilitarian rifle for use in the woods. In rough terrain a piece of art can get damaged if you slip, fall, or drop it especially when you might be overloaded with something you killed and are bringing home. A dinged up old favorite probably still appeals to us because when we look at it, we know where it and we've been, and memories of those times.

 

[Badgerfarm]

If you are wanting to re barrel or reline I would check on the N-SSA.org forum. There are several expert barrel makers in that group and I doubt that you would be disappointed with their work. I have an original 1842 Springfield .69 cal smooth bore that I'll be having a rifled barrel made for. The original bore is in fine condition and I can't bring myself to have it relined. It's a beast with the service buck and ball load but I suspect that the .69 cal minnie will have it's place too.

 

[hawkeye2]

It's not a Baker, but close.....I bought an Indian copy of a Prussian 1740's era Jaeger. I'm too lazy at the moment to take an actual photo of mine, but will if there's enough interest. I'm thinking of having a replacement barrel made that can make this useable.

This is likely the type of rifle first used by the Royal Americans during the F&I War based on Ahearn's book on British military rifles, and then later likely to have been used as the basis for the 1776-pattern British rifle.

Where did you ever find an India made jaeger? I have never seen one offered anywhere. How well does it shoot?

 

[Badgerfarm]

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I'm keeping an eye on the thread with interest in the Loyalist Arms offerings.

 

[fireman1]

Good morning and Merry Christmas!!

Sorry that I was absent for a bit. All the pre Christmas preparations got me preoccupied.

Well, I will make contact with Coltaine and see what they have to say. I was hoping to keep the cost of the finished project around $900-$1000. We have a local smith who does excellent rifles and is very familiar with ML's. He can do what I cannot.

As far as a Rifle Shoppe kit....well I am a long way from having the skills to do that. I need to build a couple of other kits first.

Any thoughts on having the smooth bore lined? I don't need to have a .62 bore to get my Peninsular war fix.

 

[FlinterNick]

Good morning and Merry Christmas!!

Sorry that I was absent for a bit. All the pre Christmas preparations got me preoccupied.

Well, I will make contact with Coltaine and see what they have to say. I was hoping to keep the cost of the finished project around $900-$1000. We have a local smith who does excellent rifles and is very familiar with ML's. He can do what I cannot.

As far as a Rifle Shoppe kit....well I am a long way from having the skills to do that. I need to build a couple of other kits first.

Any thoughts on having the smooth bore lined? I don't need to have a .62 bore to get my Peninsular war fix.

TRS kits are not too hard with household tools; it just takes patience. What I do is leave the drilling and tapping to a gunsmith; it helps keep costs down.

Stock shaping, polishing, fitting .... its all just time consuming and the dovetailing I pay TRS to do.

 

[JBrandon]

I bought an Indian Baker from Discriminating General, 2006, $468. I didn’t buy the accompanying bayonet as I don’t see a use for it and don’t intend to do reenactment. Despite DG’s claims of historical accuracy, they have the wrong lock on it. The Baker, until its last stages, had the flat hammer, not the swan-necked form. The rifle also came with unrifled barrel with no touch hole drilled, but info on a deal ($150) to have Ed Rayl rebarrel it with a rifled barrel. This he did, though it took a long long time, and he also test fired it, which required tuning the lock. When it arrived from DG, the lock was way too strong, smashed flints. Also, the original barrel was flawed, just a piece of pipe with no touchhole, and the ramrod would not go all the way down it.
Rayl did a great job – he provided a good barrel, and tuned the lock enough that it works well, and fired a few test shots, furnishing the target and load info. I browned the barrel myself, and did a little tidying of the wood of the stock, and took apart the lock and polished all bearing surfaces.
It is still not great as a Baker reproduction, there were lots of little mistakes, and quality of wood and work not wonderful. But it shoots fine now, .60 patched ball. I have killed 2 deer with it, one at 55 yd which is about as far as I like to shoot at a deer, perfect heart shot, thru and thru. I guess next time I would go higher end, pay more and get a better gun, but at the time that's what I could afford, and I still enjoy the rifle.

 

[toot]

I got mine from MSVTCo. 8 yrs. ago and have shot the dickens out of it and not a problem one. that is all I can say on the subject of them.

 

[toot]

mine came drilled for the touch hole, and had the correct pierced flat hart center shaped hammer called a double throat and flat lock marked TOWER & CROWN. I also got the bayonet, and a period correct sling. not to reenact with it but I like to have guns with every thing that the original ones had. and mine doesn't smash flints. I shoot 70 GRS. of 2fg.GOEX, and a .600 or.620 DIA. RB. and a 10 thousands pillow ticking patch. the bayonet had to be fitted to the bayonet lug, no biggie. as I said 8+ years and still performing. I have bought 7 guns from MSVTCo. over 15 years and never had to send one back. the wait takes some getting used to.