This orta be good! POWDER.

Lets kick this subject around a bit if it hasn't been done lately.
What powders do you like in what calibers and why?
I mean real powder, not the fake stuff.

 

[musketman]

I run GOEX FFg in .58 and .75 calibers... ::

Why? GOEX has never let me down yet, any problems I had/have are because of me, not their powder...

 

[roundball]

Personally I think all powders have their place in the greater scheme of things whether it's due to left over stock from a previous use, or local limitations / availability of powder types, price, storage restrictions, etc, etc.

I used Pyrodex for years in percussion rifles and have nothing but good things to say about it...now using leftover Pyrodex stock in my Navy Arms SxS .12ga for Doves.

Since switching to flintlocks, my first attempt at real BP was a few cans of Elephant FFFg and those particular cans were junk, couldn't even use it in percussions.

Tried Goex FFFg, found it to be outstanding...extremely fast, clean, accurate, reasonably priced, etc...order it by the case. Use it in .45, .50, .54 rifles + .62cal shot loads...and rezeroed all my percussion rifles with Goex FFFg. Just got some Goex FFg to set up RB hunting loads in .58 & .62...so at the moment, Goex fits all the requirements that I have.
(plus red & black happen to be my favorite colors!!) ::

 

[Ohio Joe]

I agree 100% with "musketman"... I use 3fg Goex in .45 caliber and down,,, 2fg Goex in .50 caliber and up. I've never had a problem with Goex. It's all I've ever used and that covers 27 years worth of shooting so far...

 

[connerm]

3f goex in my 1803 repro. Pan and barrel.

 

[weasel]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gifGoex 2fg in all my flinters including 45 cal my 32's are percussion so I use pyrodex p with it i can shoot who knows how many afore I got to clean the bore I usually mortar and pestle 2f goex finer for priming rather than buy 4f or 3f
weasel

 

[2172]

I use Goex 3F in flint and cap both, calibers .50 down through .32. I use 2F Goex in my .58 flint, and my double 12 ga. caplock. I had a half container of old Pyrodex =to 2F in my stockpile, and it was so old I'd forgotten that it was Pyrodex and not Goex...it was in a flask for a shotgun, and I took it to the range the first time I tried to shoot the .58 flinter....worked fine...wasn't till the 2nd or 3rd range visit with that gun that I realized it was pyrodex...I've substituted 2F Goex since, as I assume the Pyrodex working in a flinter was a fluke....Hank

 

[Deadeye]

Goex 2f in .62, .75, and shotgun and Goex 3f in .32, .45, 50, 54 and pistols. Goex seems to be very consistant from can to can. Can be a big difference in say 50 grs. of Goex and 50 grs. from another brand.

 

For years I used nothing by Hartless & Scurvey (Curtis & Harvey)2F in all my rifles, but slowly changed to GOEX as the C&H sources dried up. The GOEX produced an average of 100fps to 150fps higher velocities for the same load, but it was a bit dirtier burning.
: Once we got into the ctg. rifles, mostly Sharps .45 3 1/4", then .50 3 1/4" then finally .50's on the .348 Winchester case, we were totally switched to using 2F and 1F in the big breechloaders, al of it, GOEX.
: I found in the .69 (14bore) English Sporting Rifle, 165gr. charges of 2F GOEX worked well on the B.C. moose, dropping to 82gr.(3 drams) 3F for target work & the trail walk. Sight leafs sighted for point-blank to 300 meters come in handy. For long range gong's, 125gr. 2F is all that's needed.
: With my switch to flint, I'm using GOEX 3F in .45rifle, .45pistol and .54 pistol.
: When the musket arrives, it will get dosages of 2F from 2 1/2 drams to 5 drams for various useage. I expect to use 5drams for hunting only, if it shoots well.
: I found with the 14bore rifle, 82gr. 3FGOEX gave good accuracy and just over 1,200fps. It took 110gr. 2FGOEX to get the same velocity, but long range accuracy was better, for some reason. Even the 165gr. hunting load only gave 1,520fps, but MOA + 1/2 accuracy to 200yds. All this, of course is with GOEX as that is now the only powder we seem to be able to ship in here.
: Some day I'd like to try that Swiss powder Ross Seyfried was talking about as he says it very nearly duplicates the Curtis and Harvey #6 of old. It's all in the charcoal used. The English used willow and the powder burned moist.
: I did go through 3lbs. 2f American Deadshot from before 1898(factory blew us) that a friend gave me. It was the best, most accurate, least fouling powder I ever used. I used it only for matches and won about every one I entered with it. Incredible stuff compared to 'modern' powder, yet it was far from the best of it's 19th century day.
Daryl

 

[musketman]

For years I used nothing by Hartless & Scurvey (Curtis & Harvey)2F in all my rifles, but slowly changed to GOEX as the C&H sources dried up.

I found the story on the Curtis & Harvey powder company, see the link below...
Curtis & Harvey

 

That's interesting- where did the brand new cans come from in the 70's & 80's? Maybe I missed something, but the page said they closed in 1927.
: We were told at one time, that ICI- a Scottish factory was making powder and canning it as Curtis & Harvey as well as ICI- we bought both during the 70's - hundreds of pounds of it.
: I figured between 1972 and 1978, I went through 300 lbs. of 2F along with 3F and 1F being used considerably as well.
Daryl

 

The only powder I have used is Goex bp,3f in both of my 50's,percussion and flint,4f for priming in the flint.It was what every one at the club used when I started shooting, I wasn't going to fix it if it wasn't broke,

 

Nice responses froma great bunch of people.
Now here are some interesting facts :bull:, or b.s.
Todays Goex is NOT what it could be.
Todays Elephant is much better than it used to be, prior to 12 of 1995 or thereabouts.
Right now I prefer late mfg. Elephant to any of todays Goex.
Swiss is the best of the bunch, unfortunately it costs twice what you pay for the other brands and I think Elephant is history now. What's out there is all there is.
Generally speaking all the different brands are the basic 75.10.15 mix. Black powder is a MIXTURE, not a COMPOUND.
The mix may be the same but burn rate, clean vs dirty, hard vs. soft fouling and so on is due to several factors.
It matters how pure the KNO(3) or Potassium Nitrate and sulphur is and the kind of wood the charcaol comes from makes a huge difference in performance. I've read certain willows make the best charcoal. I don't know.
If you looked at the Swiss you'd see the grains are very shiney and the goex and elephant are very gray black. The Swiss is made from better ingredients to start with.
Goex has produced some real manure powder, but when it's the only game in town how can one compare?
Elephant made post Dec. 1995 is in my opinion :bull:, which might be b.s., a better powder than todays Goex.
That orta get some feathers ruffled. Controversy is great, and stimulating. :applause:
lets kick this around some more.
Sure wish Bill Knight was on this site as he is a recognized authority on Black Powder.
And just for the record, pyro-poo-poo sucks. ::
All in good fun fellas, lets not have a stroke. :haha:

 

[roundball]

And just for the record, pyro-poo-poo sucks.

Reminds me of the old saying: "opinions are like noses"...everybody has one and they're all different"...

Many a Deer throughout the 80's & 90's would not share your view about Pyrodex

 

[musketman]

That's interesting- where did the brand new cans come from in the 70's & 80's? Maybe I missed something, but the page said they closed in 1927.

They may have very well closed in the late 20's, then along the 70's & 80's, someone could have bought the rights to the "Curtis & Harvey" name and started reproducing powder under their trademark...

 

I'm sure that's the case. the Curtis and Hoarvey we used was fairly good powder, nowhere as dusty as the GOEX so we used the English(Scottish) powder when we could get it.
: The pre-1898 American Deadshot I blew away was absolutely the best power I'd ever shot. You could pour a bunch into your hand, dump it out of your hand, and your hand was clean, not covered with powder dust. Sharp, elongated & shorter, shiny hard black grains of powder, it was beautiful. This, even though it certainly wasn't "the best of the day".
Daryl

 

[musketman]

You could pour a bunch into your hand, dump it out of your hand, and your hand was clean, not covered with powder dust.

The "dust" you speak of is GRAPHITE, it is added to the powder in it's final stages of production to aid in flowing into and out of horns, flasks and measurers...

Since the graphite is added late, it is not bonded to the elements in the powder itself, like the carbon, sulfur and nitrates, thus the graphite remains free to move off of the powder granules and onto your hand...

Graphite has a fine, sllk like, dusty feeling to it...

 

The Deadshot powder was also graphited, that's how it gets it's black-hard coating. The 'dust' in the GOEX powder of the 70's and 80's was just dirty, dusty mixed grain powder.
: I didn't think it was merely graphite, just powder granuals that should have been confined to a 4F can, not mixed in with the 3F and 2F powder - or returned to the mash bin.
: As I understand the process, after the cakes are broken up into meal, the meal is tumbled in barrels with graphite which gives the final hard black coating. After that, it's sieved and sorted to size.
: The old Deadshot and the C&H was most defintely coated as it flowed beutifully, but without the 'dust' of the poor grade 'modern' powder. Without the coating, the grains are sharp and irregular. Tumbling with graphtie smooths the grains somewhat, but gives them the slipery surface. The old powder was definitely very superior - if only it were available oday. Sounds as if the Swiss powder comes close, at least in power, according the Seyfried's loading in antique ctg & ML guns with regulated bores.
Daryl

 

I don't like pryo-stuff, but that's an OPINION and that's all it is. Many people like it and that's o.k.
I LIKE controversy. It stimulates thought and investigation.
There is nothing wrong with that in fact there is everything right with it.
Controversy is healthy.
Please keep in mind that I respect the individual's opinion and taste, and this is all meant with the best of intentions. :applause:
Sure pyro-stuff works. I just think the best Pyro is not as good as the worse black. 'Nuther opinion. :bull:
Unfortunately we are stuck with Goex as the major brand of black and for years even I thought it was great. With nothing to compare to there was no other conclusion to draw. But then Elephant improves its powder and Goex gets a little worse in the move from the old plant in Moosic Pa.
Then comes along Swiss which is the best on the market and puts others to shame.
By the way, the dust in the powder is Not likely graphite, but actually fine black.
You won't get dust with Swiss and it is very well coated with graphite.
Now let the buffalo chips fly! :haha:

 

[musketman]

We use graphite in the rubber industry (natural rubber, not condoms) and let me say this about that...
It is a fine, silky powder that gets everywhere...

We have to wear resperators when working with it...

I'm sure the dust is also FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFg (24F) :haha:

There's no way to control it without wetting the powder and re-corning it...

Now, about letting them thar buffalo chips fly...
Can't say I ever seen that, however I did see flies on a buffaler chip before... :winking: :haha: