Thompson Center Cal 50 Kit barrels versus Thompson Center Hawken non-kit barrels.

[Cobra6]

Does anyone know if there is a quality difference between TC muzzle loading barrels (50 Cal) sold as a kit compared to a regular TC (non-kit) when sold as part of the rifle. I have a chance to buy a barrel with the following inscription "Thompson/Center Arms, Rochester New Hampshire Cal 50." The serial number is K4780, which I believe was once part of a kit by Thompson Center. It looks exactly like a Hawken barrel; however it does not state "Hawken" on the barrel. The guides for the ramrod are black? The blued finish on the barrel is good to excellent and bore looks to be in excellent condition. I could use some advise on this since I've just recently got back into muzzle loading shooting. In your opinion, is this barrel worth $90.00?

 

[Kansas Jake]

I don’t believe there was any quality difference between finished gun barrels and kit gun barrels.

I have a kit tc Hawken I built in the 1970s around 75-76. It is in the k5xxx range so your barrel is probably from the mid 70s.
The ram rod thimbles on mine were brass.

 

[Grenadier1758]

The only difference is the K in the stamp before the serial number. I thought that was to identify the barrels as part of a kit to exclude the kit barrels from the T/C warranty. We could easily over file on the barrel wedge dovetail.

Now that there is no longer a warranty on the T/C product, there is no difference. My barrel with the K in the serial number is very accurate.

 

[Bassdog1]

Many of the kit barrels came completely finished with sights installed and factory blued I have owned several and they were all excellent shooters $90 is an excellent price if it is in good condition with a clean bore.

 

[Cobra6]

Thanks, Kansas Jake and Grenadier. I feel more confident that I'm not going to be taken on this deal. I really think that any ml barrel that shoots well is worth the money, especially when it's under a hundred bucks.


Cobra 6

 

[Cobra6]

Bassdog1............ just got your message after I posted my reply to Kansas Jake and Grenadier. Nice having all you smart guys out there for advice. Thanks again.


Cobra 6

 

[Sinner]

Though it's a Thompson Center, it's not a Hawken barrel. Doesn't mean it's not good quality or won't shoot good, but it's probably and Seneca barrel.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Just for information to all I checked both of my TC Hawken kit guns. The second one I bought used and is in the K73xxx range. Neither say "Hawken" on the barrel.

 

[Dave Cross]

Though it's a Thompson Center, it's not a Hawken barrel. Doesn't mean it's not good quality or won't shoot good, but it's probably and Seneca barrel.

Also what are you putting the barrel on? I don't think all barrels are the same diameter. Just a thought. Dave

 

[Bassdog1]

If its 13/16 its Seneca and should be about 27 1/2 inches long if its 15/16ths it is a Hawken barrel

 

[BEP]

I, too, have a kit-built TC hawken. I've always thought that they didn't put "Hawken" on because that was a model that was very specific and of which they were protective and proud. TC had no control over what happened to those kits after they were sold. Although many were turned into finely finished firearms there was always the potential for Bubba to create something atrocious from those components, something nowhere in the ballpark of a factory-built TC Hawken.

 

[Cobra6]

Dave Cross

Well I'm hoping that it is either a 15/16 or 1 inch across the flats. I have both stocks for interchangeability. Seller claims it is a T/C Hawken 50 Cal barrel; however if it's a Seneca or different , off to ebay or MLF. Better still, for being dishonest or ignorant, back to the seller. I bought the barrel and it is due in today. That's if USPS delivers on Sunday? This barrel looks to be in excellent condition. The bluing looks great and the rifling has a mirror shine to it. I'll be disappointed if this barrel is a 7/8, 13/16 or something different than what I have for an accommodating stock. The good thing about this is that I bought this barrel at a very reasonable price and could resell it without a loss.

Cobra 6

 

[Grenadier1758]

The largest caliber for a Seneca will be 45 caliber.

A T/C Hawken will measure 15/16" across the flats for the 45 and 50 calibers. The Hawken in 54 caliber was 1" across the flats.

The T/C Renegade had barrels 1" across the flats for its 50 and 54 calibers.

The difference between the Hawken and Renegade is the length of the barrel.

 

[Bassdog1]

Have seen several TCs that were marked TC but not Hawken or otherwise. I have Cherokees and Senecas marked and unmarked as far as model in both factory and kit guns. Cant find any rhyme or reason as to why some are marked and some are not.

 

[Cobra6]

Grenadier/Bassdog1

When looking at pictures of the barrel it definitely indicates a 50 Cal T/C barrel. Grenadier you indicated that the largest caliber for a Seneca was 45 Cal. so I can eliminate that model . If it's a Renegade so be it, I have both the 1 " and 15/16 stock. Beginning to feel a bit better about what I'm getting. Due to the thimbles being dark/black, can I assume that this might be a Renegade kit barrel? Was there ever a Renegade kit? Just out of curiosity anyone know the flats on a Cherokee. Wish someone would sort all this T/C Hawken stuff out and list the serial numbers, barrel manufactures, ETC. However, to what I understand, the fire they had destroyed many records. Thank for all your help.

Ramble: to go about aimlessly, roam, mindless wandering.

Cobra 6

 

[Kansas Jake]

There are no records, but there have been several discussions here about possible dates etc. I gave you the serial number and approximate purchase date on mine to give you an idea of the age of the barrel you have purchased. The thimbles on earlier rifles may have been steel, or yours may have been replaced, or blackened brass.

 

[Grenadier1758]

T/C Hawken hardware is brass (except for the stainless steel Cougar version). Renegades have black hardware. Very early Hawkens had a color case hardened trigger guard.

Do you know the barrel length?

I believe the Renegades were available in kit form.

 

[Cobra6]

Grenadier/Kansas Jake

I don't know the barrel length; it is due in soon thru USPS. The serial number on this barrel is K4780. The seller states that when he came across this barrel it was part of a larger selection of muzzle loading "stuff" he acquired at an auction. In one package he found a Hawken rifle with a GM barrel attached. As part of that wrapped package there was a second barrel that I purchased. The seller states that this barrel was either not used or fired very very lightly. All indications show in the photos presented , the barrel had little wear, great bluing and the rifling was excellent.

Cobra 6

 

[Bassdog1]

All Cherokees and Senecas were 13/16ths and not made in any caliber larger than 45. I am thinking it is probably a Renegade Barrel and a very good deal if the condition is as stated by the seller.

 

[Cobra6]

Thanks for the reply Bassdog1

I think I got a deal. Seller stated that if the barrel does not live up to expectations, he will take the barrel back. I think your right about the barrel being a Renegade.


Cobra 6