Thompson Center vs. other Hawken .50's & .54's

[markz333]

Hello, I'm a new member and new to flintlock. I'm looking to buy a .54 Hawken or Trade type rifle -been lookin around and a Lyman costs $455 new. The Traditions only comes in .50 cal but can get one for $430. I can buy a used, 20-30 year old .54 Thompson Center Hawken for $350. Looks pretty good shape in the photo. I'll have to drive about 1 & 1/2 hours to get it though. Any thoughts from you with more experience on which ones might be the best way to go.
Also, I want to eventually be able to use on Elk out West so is the .54 better than a .50 ?
Thanks
PA Muzzle

 

[stinkyfeet]

Well an older Lyman GPR were great guns the newer one built today I would take if it was free but the quality control is going way down for them. Don't know anything about traditions. I love the TC hawkens and the way they shoot and fit, and the value keeps going up more and more since TC quit making them. But if you want a great hawkens style rifle get the pedersoli st louis, or rocky mountain, gorgeous rifles and they flat out shoot.

 

[Spikebuck]

if you want a great hawkens style rifle get the pedersoli st louis, or rocky mountain, gorgeous rifles and they flat out shoot.

Agree. :thumbsup: It's the Missouri River and Rocky Mountain Hawken, I believe, and the Maple versions are gorgeous. But if he wants a flinter, these two are only available in percussion.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_34/rifles-hawken.html

As much as I love my Rocky Mtn Hawken, if they made a full-stock flint version, one would be in my gun safe! :grin:

 

[markz333]

Thank you 2_Tall. Yes, those are beautiful. I need a flint for this flint deer season. Do u know if there are any wood stocks that I can replace onto a synthetic stock Hawken type CVA .50 cal? I know I can buy that gun cheap from a friend but I don't like syn stocks.

 

[markz333]

Thanks for sending the link Spikebuck! Do you know of any wood stocks that are prefit for a CVA Hawkin Synthetic- so I could replace it with wood if I bought the low priced CVA Syn?

 

[Kapow]

I think that Lyman Trade rifle is about the most versatile and useful hunting rifle made, and one of the cheapest. I can't think of a better rifle for the travelling hunter.

 

[stinkyfeet]

HA HA you are correct I was talking on the phone to my buddy coming in through St. Louis and I guess my brain farted..

 

[Dave Patterson]

I've never shot a T/C "Hawken", so can't speak to their shootability. But I recently traded for a used Lyman GPR .50 flinter (1-66")that honestly shocked me, it shot so well.

I've shot open-sights since I was big enough to keep both ends of the rifle off the ground at the same time; I've shot better groups with this thing than anything I've ever handled, including (shudder!) many, many smokeless rifles.

Yes; if you've got the choice right up front, I'd opt for the .54 for Western elk. .50 cal will definitely do 'em in, call me superstitious: I like a big bullet for a big animal.

Just my opinion...

 

[excess650]

I would want to give a used rifle a thorough examination before parting with the $$. .54 would be better for larger than deer game than the .50, IMO.

 

[GANGGREEN]

I don't mean to preach and if I come off that way, I apologize in advance. I'd just like to point out that if you're new to flintlocks and if you're still trying to decide which model to buy and if you're planning on using it in one week on PA's flint opener, I hope that you have several days to become accustomed to it, shoot it, experiment with it, sight it in, etc.. It's really expecting a lot to not only customize and sight in your gun but to get comfortable with the flint ignition and loading process yourself.

I'm not saying that it can't be done; it's not rocket science for God's sake, I've just seen a lot of guys who rushed out and purchased a flintlock right before the season, maybe shot it, maybe didn't, and it always ends in frustration at best or a wounded deer at worst.

All this said, welcome to the world of flintlocks. I live in PA too and I love the flint season best of all.

 

[Billnpatti]

The older Lyman rifles were good rifles but I have read some pretty caustic reviews on the new ones. It seems, according to what I have read on this forum, that their quality control has really gone down and the guns that they are now turning out are just not up to par. If it were me, I'd skip the Lyman. Traditions makes a pretty good rifle and I have not heard any complaints about them. I have an older T/C that is about the same age as the one that you are looking at and I have found it to be a very good rifle. The down side of T/C is that they are no longer made and it is getting hard to get parts and warranty work done by the new owners of T/C. T/C makes only the modern inline rifles and the sidelocks are no longer in production. If you can come up with the extra $80, I think I would get the Traditions rifle. I assume that it is a brand new rifle. If I am correct in that assumption, you will know that it is in perfect condition with no rust or damage and it will have a warranty. I think that is easily worth the extra $80. :2

 

[Billnpatti]

Pecatonica River company http://www.longrifles-pr.com/ sells all kinds of stocks and will quite likely have the stock that you are looking for. However, keep in mind that a new stock is not cheap and you will have to figure that added expense into the equation when looking at a rifle.

 

[don hepler]

I don't know how close to Dixon's you are. But that's where I'd be looking. I took some rifles,(Hawkens and Renegades) to the fair, hoping to sell one or two, and I couldn't compete with their prices. I left them in the truck. I shoot an older TC Hawken, with the newer cock and frizzen, and it shoots good.

 

[Walks with fire]

Since your just getting into flinlocks you will probably enjoy several different rifles over a period of time if you like it. I doubt it will be a one gun and done thing in the long run.

My opinion is to get a .54 if your interested in elk and want to shoot ball. It will work very well in PA (my home state) for deer but a .50 is fine as well. I would suggest you pick a rifle that fits you well in the clothing you going to be using while hunting. Rifle fit trumps everything in my opinion. The length and weight are also issues you need to consider for the type of hunting your intending to do. I prefer carbine lengths of around 24" for deer drives; climbing up and down mountains, getting in and out of treestands and vehicles, and quick offhand shooting. My preferences may or may not be different than yours but you should give it some thought before your first purchase.

When I began shooting flinters 40 years ago I didn't shoot them much and I wasn't very good at it either. The flash bothered my aim and I probably flinched a good bit as well. Over time I was able to shoot them just as well as any rifle and today I don't even notice the flash and am able to hold thru the shot. It wasn't easy for me to learn but you might pick it up quick.

I would say pick a .54 that fits you and get started shooting. I wouldn't be too concerned if you aren't getting the accuracy you want at first. There are lots of things to learn and it takes time. Keeping it clean of fouling, keeping the flint sharp, loading proceedures, powder charges, patch lubes and patch thickness and many other things will have to be worked out.

If you like it then it will be a lifetime journey of learning and enjoying; all you have to do is take the first steps. Hunting in PA flinter season is something I love and I bet if you give it a go you will love it as well.

 

[Shotar]

Buy it or tell me where it is. As others have mentioned, there is a learning curve with flint. You will flinch at first and likely throw shots low. Having a cheap tool to learn on is good. It also helps later when teaching others.

 

[Birddog6]

Before ya consider Anything, ya need to go shoulder some of them. Forget about the looks, looks & fit are two altogether dif things.
BIG difference in a T/C Hawken & a Lyman GPR in fit. Dif shaped stock, dif Drop at the Heel, etc. No use owning it & trying to MAKE it fit, if it is not comfortable. Personally the GPR fits me best & the T/C bumps my cheek. For others they may like the T/C better. But it has to fit YOU. :wink:

For deer sized game & larger, I would go with a .54 cal. For deer only & smaller, as .50 will work.

Keith Lisle

 

[MSW]

Before ya consider Anything, ya need to go shoulder some of them. Forget about the looks, looks & fit are two altogether dif things.
BIG difference in a T/C Hawken & a Lyman GPR in fit. Dif shaped stock, dif Drop at the Heel, etc. No use owning it & trying to MAKE it fit, if it is not comfortable. Personally the GPR fits me best & the T/C bumps my cheek. For others they may like the T/C better. But it has to fit YOU. :wink:

For deer sized game & larger, I would go with a .54 cal. For deer only & smaller, as .50 will work.

Keith Lisle

+1 for sure!

you should 'get comfortable' with any new rifle before you take it in the field ... to that end I would recommend that you check out Dutch Scoultz' system: here's a link:
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

if you follow this set of instructions, you will get smaller groups - guaranteed.

by way of my additional two cents worth, don't let price drive the train ... I can't remember what I paid for any of my rifles, which probably means that they were good investments (or that I'm beginning to suffer CRS) but if you go for the cheapest product, that's what you'll get.

finally, I'd go with the .54 (I have a T/C with a .50, a .54 and a 20 gauge smooth which I just got back from Bobby Hoyt)
:grin:

 

[robertmcw]

I have one of each (T/C Hawkins). My ex gave the 54 in new in the 1980’s and I got the 50 used last year. Both of they had the older locks and they had issues with the locks. I found a gunsmith to fix the frizzens as they needed to harden the frizzens and rework the locks and now they seem to work OK. Last week I was shooting and even with the older style lock the lock time was about zippo. I got two of the new style locks but they still needed work and the guy charges $50 up each. Now I am working up the loads and I plan to use the 54 with a round ball and the 50 with a maxi ball for deer hunting. The difference seems is the 50 weighs just a little than the 54. I understand the round ball is just a better tighter group from 50 ”“ 100 yards. Can you try the frizzen before you buy it and if you can put a flint in the frizzen and see it sparks and it works for at least 30 times before it fails so you can see if you have issues with the lock or not?

Robert

 

[hobowonkanobe]

I cant say for or against Tradditions, But, I had a TC Hawken back in '95, one of the BEST balanced weapons I have had the joy to hold and shoot. Easy on the arms and the "sight wobbles" as a result when shooting free hand. Yeah, you cld bench it, but it was an option, not all but required to get a good grouping.

 

[Bugflipper]

One thing folks don't mention often enough are TC hawkens tend to knock the piss out of a lot of shooters' cheeks. It depends on how your cheek is, I have high cheek bones and despise the cheek rests on tc hawkens. The bigger the caliber the more they whoop on you. My little tc cherokee in 40 and 45 just barely pushes up and is tolerable with the same cheek rest. For anything bigger I shoot a renegade or a left hand hawken with the cheek rest on the other side of the stock being a right handed shooter. Can't say for the GPR because my 54 is a lefty as well. I'd definitely only be hunting for a 54 with elk in mind. You'd get a bit more range out of the heavier ball to ensure punching all the way through. Heck I use a 54 most of the time for deer for the extra range.