Time period for the NWTG

[olflint40]

Was wondering what time period the north west trade gun is?? Would it work for F&I war reenacting??

 

[matt denison]

[i]Would it work for F&I war reenacting?? [/i]


Only in Hollywood.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

The earliest acceptable date for the North West trade gun that I've seen is around 1770-80. And they changed every so often. For example while looking very similer in style, there are subtle differences between say a 1780's trade gun and one from the 1820's. Generally the locks are a bit different. I'm no expert on the subject but I think most North West kits and guns that are sold today tend to be of the later variety. I'd opt for a type G (sometimes called the Carolina Gun) or a Wilson trade gun. Matt sells an earlier version at North Star West and Caywood also as the Wilson which is an earlier gun.

 

[Shine]

Go with north stars early english trade gun. I took one bear hunting a few years ago. Very reliable so much as I never carry a back up gun. They are tough enough to use as a club if you need too :shocked2: Just kidding.

 

[Rifleman1776]

There should be a law against so much uglies in one post. :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Northwest mentioned in the same breath as these "trade guns" relates to the OLD Northwest territories, being located around the Great Lakes.

Until the French and Indian war was "won" by the British, this area was largely controlled and serviced by the French. That is why you find so little evidence of English-made Trade guns much before the 1770s.

There were French-made Trade guns( Fusils, and Charleyvilles) being sold and traded to the Indians before the French and Indian War, and, obviously, During the war, itself.( roughly 1754-1763).

 

[Shine]

what are you talkin about those guns are beautiful. :grin:

 

[Dausener]

Now that there is funny,. I don't care who ya are. :wink:

 

[tg]

The term NW gun was first in print in 1761, the e NW gun as lt looks, as offered by most vendors today who typical use a post 1800 gun for reference is likley around in the 1770's, with minor difference in the hardware and lock from the later guns now sold, I would go with an Early English or Carolina gun myself for the F&I....others may dissagree.. :hmm:

 

[dhobbs]

olflint,
I see your located in the southeast and are intrested in F & I reenacting.....ever been to Fort Toulouse in Al? As to the gun question here is my advise. There are really two paths to take French or English in manufacture. If you want an English made gun skip the "early english" and go with the Carolina gun AKA type G. I have owned one of those early english trade guns(and sold it for the Carolina I carry now) and while funtionally they are fine...comparing them to origianl guns there are always problems with weight, barrel lenght, matching the hardware with extant guns or archelogical parts. Carolina gun hardware is so common through out the south that it is clear that while there may be variations they are the predominate trade gun from the english. Micheal Seidelman, Jack Brooks, Ben Coggle, ect all build these guns. Yes, they are going to cost a little bit more, but if your going to spend a fair amount of cash to get a gun...why not invest in a gun that is an investment and matches up with extant material and is not..almost like this or that. A true Carolina gun weights in just under 6 pounds! Get a copy of Hamiltions book Colonial Frontier Guns.....Nothing like looking at the real deal. If your intrested in French guns I have an uncle that is a student of french trade guns and can give really good advise.

Good luck,
David

 

[Rifleman1776]

what are you talkin about those guns are beautiful. :grin:

Guns is great. I wuz talkin' abut the critters. :wink:
BTW, did ye notice their 'authentic' clothes?

 

[Shine]

Its not a primitive hunt we just all use flinters To show the flatlanders that come what piss poor hunters they are :grin:.The pretty boy left of me carrying the bow,a flatlander,by the way bought my gun at camp. His first flinter we made him a BELIVER. The camo is neccesary because the shots are close about 25 yds. The Maine woods is very thick. If it was a period correct hunt we would be using dogs, burning the woods down, or killing them in the den in winter. Then we could wear pink tutus and it would not matter.
Here is your critters

 

[Rifleman1776]

Shine
My sense of humor is to be taken with a grain of salt. Don't take my wisecracks too seriously. If you think I am really off base, please contact me privately.
I hunt with my flintlocks wearing camo also. You had a good hunt, I have never bagged a bear.
Frank

 

[Shine]

No worries I know your just foolin. I got thick skin.I love to trade wisecracks. :grin: But i am a handsome devil. :blah:

 

[tg]

Looks like a lot of fun. not to flame anyone but I have hunted most of my life with Bow amd ML's and in very close quarters much of the time and never found camo to be needed, it can be an aid and many like it but being a requirement is probably a bit strong, again just my humnble opinion based on my own field experience which has resulted in a fair share of game taken at close range in many colors of clothing,me being in the clothing not the game, if it just gives one confidence it is a good tool, as always, others may not agree..... :shocked2: I would think that in some areas there would still be some Dutch guns around they are very much under used by re-enactors today probably due to the lack of offerings, the N.E. would be the most likley place for these to have been originaly used.

 

[paulvallandigham]

This will come as a SHOCK to Tg, but I agree with you. I went Dove hunting years ago, with a friend, to a new place, and there were literally Dozens of hunters there, lined down a half mile of sunflower plants, and a 50 yard strip of bare ground, where sunflowers had been disked down and turned under to provide the birds with plenty of "dust" to give themselves their daily dust bath( used to remove oils from between their feathers) beyond that bare ground was a tree line and small stream of water.

Most of the men there were COVERED in Camo- I didn't have any. I was told that I was dressed all wrong- blue jeans that had faded with age, and a brown shirt. I was told that the birds would spot me and flair away from me, and that I simply would get no shots.

We set up in the sunflower plants that remained, but there was not much cover. We sat on the bottoms of buckets we used to carry our shells, water, and anything else we thought we needed to our "stands".

Well, the birds streamed in- all afternoon. I was trying to compete against shooters using full chokes, when I was shooting an Improved cylinder gun, and they simply would not let birds get close enough to me to insure many kills. I did get 6 birds that first hour. I then decided to move away from these guys, and set up about 200 feet from them. I picked my shot and soon had almost my complete daily bag limit of 15 birds. i was out in the disked field picking up a couple of birds, in all my brown shirt and blue jean glory when my friend yelled that more birds were coming in behind me. I squatted down, as I brought my shotgun up to shoot, and killed two more birds while in the middle of that wide open field. The birds almost dropped in my lap.


So much for needing to wear Camo to hunt dove. The Camo guys were actually shocked when they learned I got my daily bag limit of birds. I killed the last 4 birds with just 5 shots fired.

I do know that wearing plaid flannel shirts like those red and black, or blue and white shirts we saw back some 60 years ago breaks up your outline enough that if you stand still, deer will not recognize you as a human. If they get your scent, of course, because you are upwind from them, then they will run away, but you don't need camo to hunt deer, either.

Animals are alerted to movement, and smells. Noise doesn't help, either.

If you want to learn how to MOVE slowly and not make noise- either yourself or because your jerky movements have alerted other animals who then yell out alarm calls-- Take your shoes off, and put a blindfold over your eyes. Have someone guide you, or better yet, have someone tie a rope to trees and bushes along a trail, so that you can guide yourself with a hand on the rope.

Try NOT to break sticks, and twigs, or crush dead leaves under your feet. ( Hint: It can hurt!) Without your eyes providing 95% of the information you use, your ears will take over, and you will hear a lot more sounds that you ever thought possible. You will learn rather quickly how to walk quietly- even wearing boots, and how to LISTEN.

It doesn't take much genius to figure out what the direction of the wind is on any given day, and then approach the area that you want to hunt with the wind in your face, so your scent is driven behind you. I rub plants and grasses that are native to a particular area I want to hunt over my clothing wrists, and hands. I use baking soda to neutralize the scent from the crotch of my pants. Rubber boots, with the cuffs of your pants tucked into them will keep dead skin cells from falling down your legs and dusting the ground where you step, giving off your scent trail for many feet around.

I have had some success using Attracting Scents, such as "Doe-in-heat" on the arches of my boots to help distract bucks from my own scent. And, I have had success wearing Blaze Orange "Camo" when BO is required by state game laws, but I have also killed my fair share of deer and other game wearing solid Blaze Orange clothing.

If there is a "secret" to hunting success, it is learning to move SLOWER!-- As Slow As a Tree! :wink:

 

[Shine]

Its the best time I have all year we spend 7 days at camp. But bear are not doves. We hunt them over bait because you will never see one just moving slow though the woods. You are hunting a predator not a food species.They are not stupid and notice everything. Ive killed 14 of them in northern maine. There is a reason I do the things I do. I had one that could tell if there was someone in the stand or not and lie in a brook just out of sight until I left. I put on my tree tux I had in the army and set up where he was laying I put a camo jacket stuffed with grass in the stand. I killed him in 20 minutes he came in at 475 pounds they don't get big buy being stupid.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not stupid, but both complacent, and arrogant, as they see themselves as the top of the food chain. When they don't live near humans, they don't often realize the risk. It all depends on hunting pressure. A good friend of mine tracked a Black Bear in the Shawnee National Forest, after coming across its tracks while deer hunting, and found it trying to den in the ruins and foundation of an old homestead. Being a competent tracker, he knew he was following fresh tracks, so he moved very slowly, and sneaked up to where he could get a good enough look to verify that it was the bear whose tracks he had been following. Back then( early 1980s), Illinois didn't officially have any wild black bear population, so there was no legal hunting permitted. He reported the bear to the Ranger in charge of that Forest, and then drove him back to the site so that the Ranger himself saw the bear curled up in the foundation. They left without disturbing the bear, and it was more than 25 years before Illinois first recognized that we have black bear back living in the state- and that was only because a car driver hit a bear on the road and killed it. Pictures in the local paper, insurance claims- the kinds of Evidence its hard to deny. Don't you just love Government?? :haha: :hatsoff:

 

[hanshi]

While we have bear coming out the wazoo, here in the Old Dominion, I've yet to connect. I only started wearing camo a few years ago when my sister gave me a present for my birthday. Prior to that I hunted in whatever I had ready with no problem in the woods.

 

[Shine]

They know they are on the menu here, our season starts in sep and ends last day of november. The subject of bringing back the spring season has come up.We have too many bear they are eating to many deer fawns. We have a sorry deer herd 1 per square mile.If a bear know you around you will never see them. If they see you all you will see is bear a*!