Tips on making buckskin leggings
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Most deer skins will make one. Fringed western style need a big deer. Those tended to come up near the crouch. Eastern tended to be just a few inchs above the knee. The small or med hide should be plenty.
In Hills Hanta Yo, she wrote how the boy wanted to make a pair of leg covers from a pronghorn skin. Musta been a big pronghorn or a small boy....or hill never made any leggings.
In Hills Hanta Yo, she wrote how the boy wanted to make a pair of leg covers from a pronghorn skin. Musta been a big pronghorn or a small boy....or hill never made any leggings.
Just browsing sizes I'm finding I'll need a big one or two smaller ones. I called around today to local places to see if I could source some, no luck. 12 sq ft for the whole pair is a generous measurement (6 in either way) but it'll get me in the ballpark without risking not having enough
Stophel
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Other than the one Cherokee picture, I have never seen center seamed Indian leggings anywhere (German ones, yes, but that's a different subject). Otherwise, they pretty much all tend to be of the same basic side flap wool design. Some are known to have been open near the bottom with hooks and eyes attached so you can get your foot through and then close them up.
I am a cherokee so i do know a little bit about our historical clothing.Most of the drawing you will see are after white infuence so of coarse you would be seeing a lot of cloth used.There was woven matterias around before settlers were here but much different than what you see in the drawings.Someone mentioned about possibly being a sign of wealth? Cherokee did not view weath like you are used to thinking.That would have been frowned on even. They did like bright flashy colors though. The above drawing looks like a typical european style of that time.A bit off in anatomy and the faces feminized a lot.To me everything about the clothes they are wearing looks like a costom they were provided with or coached on to put a show on for the whites big wig buddies in England.The outer wraps look like a womans shaw almost with the lace or trim around the edges.Normal would have been a small blanket for the most part.The leggings do not show much detail so hard to tell mmuch about them but im guessing by the lack of detail that they were pretty much everyday leggings because the artist drew them as not being anything but plain.The tattooed faces look about right for that time period. But the tatoo's mixed with clothing that already show a lot of white influence at a times when the cherokee were known to try and look as much like european settlers as they could,tells me that the clothing was fairly new to them or many of them would have already shied away from the facial tattoo's.The hair styles are not right at all. I am not sure what it up with that. May be the artist just wasnt good with hair or may be they were trying to copy something or following advice from their host,i dont know.That time period they would have mostly wore long hair that was pulled up to the top and shaved around the sides. For everyday they may have worn it down, braided or just tied back.In war it would have been pulled up to the top center and a band of bone or copper over it and the long strands splayed open and a single eagle feather sticking up in the center. The long ends may have been painted or dusted red. Looks like in the picture that they do in fact have their heads shaved around the sides but cant tell if it is cut short or is braided some way.At any rate the drawing shows either shorter hair or very thin. Cherokee are noted to have rather thick hair but again it could be the artist just was not that good,lol.The man in the center looks to have some odd sort of something in his hair, maybe small feathers? That does not look right at all.All in all i think it looks like they had been costumed up for a show by their white hosts.I do see a lot of people different places say those are cherokee mocs, or plains mocs and so on. There may have been certain styles associated with different tribes but for sure were no such rules. They traveled and traded with many other tribes and im sure plenty saw different styles on their travels and thought, hey thats cool, think ill do that,lol. Same way as you will see natives adopting different styles and things they saw among the settlers. So i would not get to hung up on leggings being just a certain way. You would be safe assuming either side seam or center.
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I REALLY enjoyed reading that information and it is wonderful that such information is available. Thank you. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:
Gus
Gus
Stophel
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I made my first leather leggins many years ago (and I need to replace them). Stitched up the sides with no flaps and seam turned in. I added the triangular extensions on the front to cover my shoe buckles (no moccasins for me) and a button on strap to wrap around the bottom of the shoes in front of the heel. The tops buttoned to my breeches. I've seen enough to know that they weren't absolutely uniform in such things 250 years ago.
I'm anxious to try the plain flapped wool ones myself
I'm anxious to try the plain flapped wool ones myself
Awesome post Kituwa,
Thanks
Doc
Thanks
Doc
In Spence's post quoting the early sources, they speak of woolen leggings as stopping the bite of poisonous serpents!
How thick and heavy would that fabric have to be? And tightly woven. I have some really heavy wool Malone pants (from L.L. Bean, years ago), and I don't know that they would stop a snake's fangs.
Even buckskin, I would think a snake could pierce it. Somebody enlighten me. :wink:
And Spence, like just about everything you do, those leggings are fine.
Richard/Grumpa
How thick and heavy would that fabric have to be? And tightly woven. I have some really heavy wool Malone pants (from L.L. Bean, years ago), and I don't know that they would stop a snake's fangs.
Even buckskin, I would think a snake could pierce it. Somebody enlighten me. :wink:
And Spence, like just about everything you do, those leggings are fine.
Richard/Grumpa
Grumpa, I don't know exactly what they were describing, but there are clues. First, they frequently describe the wool leggings as being tied so they are very large and loose about the lower leg. That would minimize the chance of a strike actually contacting your leg, if the legging wasn't actually snug up against the leg. Second, there is a type of fabric advertised for sale at that time which might be similar to that being used. It's called half-thick, and is described as a coarse, thick woolen cloth. There is even one reference to leggings made of it, described as Indian stockings, a runaway.
The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 2, 1741
RUN away .....Had on when he went away, a striped Blanket, brown Duroy Coat, Ozenbrigs Shirt, Leather Breeches, white half thick Indian Stockings, Indian Shoes , worsted Cap, Felt Hat:
I'm guessing, you understand.
Spence
The Pennsylvania Gazette
April 2, 1741
RUN away .....Had on when he went away, a striped Blanket, brown Duroy Coat, Ozenbrigs Shirt, Leather Breeches, white half thick Indian Stockings, Indian Shoes , worsted Cap, Felt Hat:
I'm guessing, you understand.
Spence
Makes sense.
Of course, the young braves wanting skin tight leggings is a good example of vanity trumping practicality/safety.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. :haha:
Richard/Grumpa
Of course, the young braves wanting skin tight leggings is a good example of vanity trumping practicality/safety.
The more things change, the more they stay the same. :haha:
Richard/Grumpa
Myth is important. As stated loose leggings could alowe a snake to bite the cloth and miss the leg. Or a smaller snake like a young copperhead or rattlesnake may not have enough tooth to get through.
Most of the time snakes kill nice and small animals. Killing people ain't snakes job. So it's a good chance that a snake bite may not inject enough poisen to kill a man. So we have funny cures for snake bites, such as tobacco poultices or getting drunk. Not getting bit, or having one or two misses produces the myth of protection. I know people who today surround thier beds with rope as ' snakes won't cross rope'.
I've been snake bit more then once and each time it was my fault. Most time snakes leave you alone. So if you pulled on wool or canvas leggings and didn't get bit that proved they worked. If you were in a party with some one in buckskin leggings who was bit through the leggings and you wernt that would reinforce the myth.
Most of the time snakes kill nice and small animals. Killing people ain't snakes job. So it's a good chance that a snake bite may not inject enough poisen to kill a man. So we have funny cures for snake bites, such as tobacco poultices or getting drunk. Not getting bit, or having one or two misses produces the myth of protection. I know people who today surround thier beds with rope as ' snakes won't cross rope'.
I've been snake bit more then once and each time it was my fault. Most time snakes leave you alone. So if you pulled on wool or canvas leggings and didn't get bit that proved they worked. If you were in a party with some one in buckskin leggings who was bit through the leggings and you wernt that would reinforce the myth.
Well put.
I find snakes fascinating, but rarely hike where there are poisonous snakes, and have only encountered a few rattlesnakes and one water moccasin in a lifetime of hiking and hunting. I expect I have unknowingly passed hundreds of the former, and a few copperheads as well.
You are correct about us not being of "culinary" interest to them, and a full grown viper will rarely inject a lethal dose of venom into a human.
Immature snakes are another matter; they haven't learned to control their dose.
Having read authoritative accounts by people who have been bitten, I am happy to observe poisonous snakes at a safe distance. I have no desire to catch, or kill, them. I might feel different if I lived where they were plentiful. :grin:
I find snakes fascinating, but rarely hike where there are poisonous snakes, and have only encountered a few rattlesnakes and one water moccasin in a lifetime of hiking and hunting. I expect I have unknowingly passed hundreds of the former, and a few copperheads as well.
You are correct about us not being of "culinary" interest to them, and a full grown viper will rarely inject a lethal dose of venom into a human.
Immature snakes are another matter; they haven't learned to control their dose.
Having read authoritative accounts by people who have been bitten, I am happy to observe poisonous snakes at a safe distance. I have no desire to catch, or kill, them. I might feel different if I lived where they were plentiful. :grin:
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Indeed, Eastern Rattlesnakes were found in abundance in places we would not expect them today.
"Amongst all British regiments which served in America during the War for Independence, the 62nd Regiment had a unique, documented uniform modification made to the bayonet scabbards by some of its men on campaign, thanks to the general order dated Ticonderoga, New York, 6 July 1777: “The 62d Regiment to take possession of Mount Independence; the Regiment Prince Frederick to take possession of Ticonderoga; Brigadier General Hamilton to command the two regiments.” Before the name was changed to “Mount Independence” by the rebels in 1776, this 300 foot peninsular height overlooking the Lake Champlain Valley was known as “Rattlesnake Hill,” and with good reason: the place was famous for its overabundance of eastern timber rattlesnakes. The European soldiers of Burgoyne's army were both terrified and fascinated with the snakes””especially rattlesnakes””found in America, and there is no end of correspondence by the officers upon the subject. This fascination took an unexpected turn with the soldiers of the 62nd Regiment, as expressed by Lieutenant James Green (26th Regiment), who had been sergeant-major of the 62nd Regiment in 1777, in a letter to his friend Mr. Bainton written on 26 January 1781:
With respect to the wild Animals of America, I never saw any except a Fox now and then. The Snakes indeed are terrible and numerous. I have killed several with my own hands. I have seen Rattle Snakes Seven feet long. They were in such plenty near Ticonderoga that the Men used to cover their bayonet Scabbards with the Skins.
Green was alluding to the fact that the 62nd Regiment, as a whole or in part, garrisoned Rattlesnake Hill from 6 July though 12 August 1777 before being ordered to rejoin Burgoyne's main army. The men no doubt served the rest of the campaign with their eastern timber rattlesnake skin covered bayonet scabbards."
http://62ndregiment.org/soldier_arms.htm
Gus
"Amongst all British regiments which served in America during the War for Independence, the 62nd Regiment had a unique, documented uniform modification made to the bayonet scabbards by some of its men on campaign, thanks to the general order dated Ticonderoga, New York, 6 July 1777: “The 62d Regiment to take possession of Mount Independence; the Regiment Prince Frederick to take possession of Ticonderoga; Brigadier General Hamilton to command the two regiments.” Before the name was changed to “Mount Independence” by the rebels in 1776, this 300 foot peninsular height overlooking the Lake Champlain Valley was known as “Rattlesnake Hill,” and with good reason: the place was famous for its overabundance of eastern timber rattlesnakes. The European soldiers of Burgoyne's army were both terrified and fascinated with the snakes””especially rattlesnakes””found in America, and there is no end of correspondence by the officers upon the subject. This fascination took an unexpected turn with the soldiers of the 62nd Regiment, as expressed by Lieutenant James Green (26th Regiment), who had been sergeant-major of the 62nd Regiment in 1777, in a letter to his friend Mr. Bainton written on 26 January 1781:
With respect to the wild Animals of America, I never saw any except a Fox now and then. The Snakes indeed are terrible and numerous. I have killed several with my own hands. I have seen Rattle Snakes Seven feet long. They were in such plenty near Ticonderoga that the Men used to cover their bayonet Scabbards with the Skins.
Green was alluding to the fact that the 62nd Regiment, as a whole or in part, garrisoned Rattlesnake Hill from 6 July though 12 August 1777 before being ordered to rejoin Burgoyne's main army. The men no doubt served the rest of the campaign with their eastern timber rattlesnake skin covered bayonet scabbards."
http://62ndregiment.org/soldier_arms.htm
Gus
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People have an inborn fear of snakes. Why is this so? Pick your explanation, there are a ton. I don't recall reading of too many people dying from snake bite in jornal and diaries I've read.
I have been bit, one time by a rattlesnake, three times by copperheads. Each one was my own fault. Snakes, baby or adult don't want to bite people, and never have wanted to.
Back in the old days people had a lot of snake myths. Each snake seen was retold as barely saved from an attack. Luckily the story tell was just able to kill the snake Mano a Mano.
I have people in this day and age tell me that chainsaws call copperheads, or you can't go on that hill because of the snakes. I've seen snakes when cutting wood or trecking in rocky areas, but they were all looking for a place to hide.
People fear sharks, but if you die from going to the beach it will be from skin cancer or a car accident on the way. Cotten mouths can be aggressive near a nest otherwise North America dosnt have a snake that won't do everything it can to get out of your way. That fact helps explain why doing something will protect the doer snakes. So snake boots leggings or eucalyptus oil behind your ears can protect you. Yes I know there will be someone who was saved by from a bite or knows Bobs uncles best friend was saved by snake boots. Back then bears Indians and bad guys were the danger in the woods, today it's sloppy hunters, and a few bad guys and healthy doses of stupid. Snake bites are few and far between. Thunder storms are far more of a danger.
I have been bit, one time by a rattlesnake, three times by copperheads. Each one was my own fault. Snakes, baby or adult don't want to bite people, and never have wanted to.
Back in the old days people had a lot of snake myths. Each snake seen was retold as barely saved from an attack. Luckily the story tell was just able to kill the snake Mano a Mano.
I have people in this day and age tell me that chainsaws call copperheads, or you can't go on that hill because of the snakes. I've seen snakes when cutting wood or trecking in rocky areas, but they were all looking for a place to hide.
People fear sharks, but if you die from going to the beach it will be from skin cancer or a car accident on the way. Cotten mouths can be aggressive near a nest otherwise North America dosnt have a snake that won't do everything it can to get out of your way. That fact helps explain why doing something will protect the doer snakes. So snake boots leggings or eucalyptus oil behind your ears can protect you. Yes I know there will be someone who was saved by from a bite or knows Bobs uncles best friend was saved by snake boots. Back then bears Indians and bad guys were the danger in the woods, today it's sloppy hunters, and a few bad guys and healthy doses of stupid. Snake bites are few and far between. Thunder storms are far more of a danger.
I'm not quite sure what the fact that storms are more dangerous in today's world than snakes are has to do with the situation in the 18th century. I believe they were much more common then, and much more likely to cause death or severe tissue damage than today, with our advanced treatments.
Anyway, FYI, a few bits from the day.
Dr. Thomas Walker’s Journal, 1750
...the lame horse was as bad as we left him, and another had been bit in the Nose by a Snake. I rub'd the wound with Bears oil, and gave him a drench of the same and another of the decoction of Rattle Snake root some time after.
...my riding horse ws bit by a Snake this day, and having no Bears Oil I rub'd the place with a piece of fat meat which had the desired effect.
The SOUTH-CAROLINA Gazette
April 8, 1756
The CURE for the Bites of a RATTLE-SNAKE. as discovered by Sampson, a *****: For which Discovery the Province purchased his Freedom, and allows him an Annuity”¦.
Journal of Warren Johnson 1760-61
Upstate New York
There are vast Quantities of Snakes whose bites are mortal, if not immediately prevented by applying Salt or Oyle to the Part affected. Otherwise the Leg swells, which runs upwards, & the Person dies very shortly;
Nicholas Cresswell’s Journal, spring of 1775
Shot a Rattlesnake which had like to have bite my horse. It was about 4 feet long.
Killed a Rattlesnake.
People that travel much in the Woods wear leggings of coarse woollen cloth, which their teeth cannot get through.
Saw a Rattle Snake about 4 feet long.
Captn. Lee's brother gave me a Rattlesnake skin about four feet long.
Mr. H. Neilson gave me some Rattlesnake teeth.
Must wear leggings. These are pieces of coarse woollen cloth wrapped round the leg and tied below the knee with a string to prevent the snakes biting you.
Spence
Anyway, FYI, a few bits from the day.
Dr. Thomas Walker’s Journal, 1750
...the lame horse was as bad as we left him, and another had been bit in the Nose by a Snake. I rub'd the wound with Bears oil, and gave him a drench of the same and another of the decoction of Rattle Snake root some time after.
...my riding horse ws bit by a Snake this day, and having no Bears Oil I rub'd the place with a piece of fat meat which had the desired effect.
The SOUTH-CAROLINA Gazette
April 8, 1756
The CURE for the Bites of a RATTLE-SNAKE. as discovered by Sampson, a *****: For which Discovery the Province purchased his Freedom, and allows him an Annuity”¦.
Journal of Warren Johnson 1760-61
Upstate New York
There are vast Quantities of Snakes whose bites are mortal, if not immediately prevented by applying Salt or Oyle to the Part affected. Otherwise the Leg swells, which runs upwards, & the Person dies very shortly;
Nicholas Cresswell’s Journal, spring of 1775
Shot a Rattlesnake which had like to have bite my horse. It was about 4 feet long.
Killed a Rattlesnake.
People that travel much in the Woods wear leggings of coarse woollen cloth, which their teeth cannot get through.
Saw a Rattle Snake about 4 feet long.
Captn. Lee's brother gave me a Rattlesnake skin about four feet long.
Mr. H. Neilson gave me some Rattlesnake teeth.
Must wear leggings. These are pieces of coarse woollen cloth wrapped round the leg and tied below the knee with a string to prevent the snakes biting you.
Spence
Skins arrived from Spotted Pony. Their #2's ain't bad at all. Of course, being so new they are fairly thick and plenty yellowish haha. Looks like I'm building a smudge fire soon after sewing them up!
I might very well do some wool ones if I can source some dark green stuff. I got a good deal on the skins, need a second blanket so we shall see.
Time to cut up some old pants!
Thanks for the help everyone. Might pop in with some questions
I might very well do some wool ones if I can source some dark green stuff. I got a good deal on the skins, need a second blanket so we shall see.
Time to cut up some old pants!
Thanks for the help everyone. Might pop in with some questions
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