I get the best groups with an even firm push on the rod with my weight. A bathroom scale on the butt when loading and you get get the same amount of pressure from shot to shot if you really want to be consistent.
To Bounce or not to Bounce
- Thread starter flatcreek
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
cannonball1
62 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2014
- Messages
- 649
- Reaction score
- 506
One thing that I have never seen mentioned even though it is obvious for most, but may not be for those new to the sport, there is a definite big difference in the way the ramrod acts when the bullet is not seeded. Small bounce - unseeded ball. Large bounce - seeded ball.
Ditt44
40 Cal
I push until firm then another nudge but never bounce. Consistency matters and using wood vs brass rods will give entirely different outcomes with a bounce, and perhaps even a 'push' seating method.
I load with a brass rod at the range and hunt with a Delrin rod. I am sure that Delrin will bounce differently than the other two as well. I can understand one or two bounces if not overly aggressive to test/ensure seating, but I have found that a firm push followed by an even more firm one at resistance at or near the known/marked rod depth is enough for me. I might bounce on a .50 but never on my .32 or .36.
I have a friend who shoots a Traditions Deerstalker flint with those skirted green pointy objects and he slams that rod down over and over again. It is painful to watch.... I'm a round ball guy and to each his own but I figure that a wood rod will deform a ball the least, the Delrin slightly more and a brass rod will do the most deformation.
I load with a brass rod at the range and hunt with a Delrin rod. I am sure that Delrin will bounce differently than the other two as well. I can understand one or two bounces if not overly aggressive to test/ensure seating, but I have found that a firm push followed by an even more firm one at resistance at or near the known/marked rod depth is enough for me. I might bounce on a .50 but never on my .32 or .36.
I have a friend who shoots a Traditions Deerstalker flint with those skirted green pointy objects and he slams that rod down over and over again. It is painful to watch.... I'm a round ball guy and to each his own but I figure that a wood rod will deform a ball the least, the Delrin slightly more and a brass rod will do the most deformation.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2021
- Messages
- 337
- Reaction score
- 537
When shooting for score in the 70s I also did the above.
I suggest the underlying issue is consistent load compression. As with C+B revolvers variation in ram force can result in varying POI.
Having said that, Granddad did recommend throwing the rod down when loading a shotgun. He said he could tell by the sound when properly compressed. Tunk, tunk, tunk changed to tink,tink,tink.
Having said that, Granddad did recommend throwing the rod down when loading a shotgun. He said he could tell by the sound when properly compressed. Tunk, tunk, tunk changed to tink,tink,tink.
ronaldrothb49
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2021
- Messages
- 834
- Reaction score
- 1,425
I started shooting competition back in the 70's so been doing it awhile. I was taught that for the most consistent accuracy you need a loading routine where you do everything the same way every time. When loading the patch and ball it should be done in one continuous stroke so that when it meets the powder you should be applying the same amount of pressure each time and yes it is hard to do that with a wood ramrod. Some have taken this further with attachments to their loading rods or sitting the butt on a scale that measure the amount of pressure applied, I haven't gotten that extreme. Your ramrod should be marked to show when the ball is sitting on the powder.
No bounce
Like was mentioned earlier, CONSISTENCY
Me thinks the ram rod bounce is from the Rev & Silly War people who use steel ram rods.
If you've never seen something amazing as a guy throwing a ram rod down a barrel 2-3 times you've not seen it all.
But it's not as bad as the guy who replied after asking me how to make a range rod.
I told him to get a steel rod if he wanted to save a few $$.
His reply, OMG steel will make a spark and set off the powder!
He also removed his pickups tail gate to increase fuel mileage.
Like was mentioned earlier, CONSISTENCY
Me thinks the ram rod bounce is from the Rev & Silly War people who use steel ram rods.
If you've never seen something amazing as a guy throwing a ram rod down a barrel 2-3 times you've not seen it all.
But it's not as bad as the guy who replied after asking me how to make a range rod.
I told him to get a steel rod if he wanted to save a few $$.
His reply, OMG steel will make a spark and set off the powder!
He also removed his pickups tail gate to increase fuel mileage.
flatcreek
40 Cal
Ok, got the chrony out and here are the results. Bounce goes faster and deviation is less according to my test. Wasn't the most perfect test, but it does show a definite pattern and I even hit the gong most shots off hand 45 yds. This was the same rifle and same load 50 gr 3f swiss. PRB. I think you could do this all day long and the bounce would be faster, I'm not that sure about the deviation. The bounce was with the under barrel wood rod and the push was with a heavy brass rod. Next I'll try both with the wood rod and I think I will see a bigger difference, that bass rod is heavy and seats the ball very tight.
Having fun, Phil
Having fun, Phil
Last edited:
I don't bounce. I agree with those that say load consistently and use a steady push on the ram rod to seat the PRB to your loaded gun mark. To get consistent pressure in the field, (not at the range),I put the toe of the butt plate on my big toe and run the ball down applying the necessary pressure to seat the ball fully. I can usually tell by the pressure on my toe if I have seated the ball on the powder for consistency.
Been a bouncer for over 40 years. I have always used a properly sized cupped jag on a hickory ramrod. Seat the ball firmly then with a flick of the wrist toss the ramrod down the barrel from 3-4 inches until it bounces back an inch or so. The ball is firmly seated on the charge and have at it. I would not do this with a brass or steel range rod, only with the much lighter hickory ramrod that goes with each rifle.
In a second shot hunting situation you certainly are not going to bounce the ramrod unless you want to run the game away! Just saying.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2020
- Messages
- 7,493
- Reaction score
- 21,011
- Location
- On the Border in Idaho looking at BC
bounce
Wondering if anyone has pulled a ball after bouncing to see if bouncing has deformed the ball in any way. Reason why is I have a ball that looks like it has been compressed and do not remember what happened to it.
Yup I liked the brass range rod. I've got a 3/8 in. Rod had used on my scratch build plains/ Hawkins style rifel. Now I've gotten into Long Rifels. And I picked up one of those fancy Brass "Last range rod you'll ever need" withe the aluminium handle. Had to add another section of brass rod. Just to make it long enough for the 44 inch barrel.
I shure noticed how heavy and awkward it was getting the ball started. And then you could push the ball down easy.
Then came the day I um had to pull a ball out. Supprize, I had tapped that ball down. And made a semi- Conical projectile out of that round ball. Yup flatish on the top and bottom.
Since the I've got a 1/4 in range rod from Kibler. I sometimes forget to grab it. And just use a wood rod. Wich I bounce an inch or so. I've also made a range rod that's about half aluminum and the bottom is brass. Fitted with a old nylon jagg.
I think at times my best shots are when using the wood ramrod.
And if using a brass rod, don't seat your ball untill that rod bounces.
I shure noticed how heavy and awkward it was getting the ball started. And then you could push the ball down easy.
Then came the day I um had to pull a ball out. Supprize, I had tapped that ball down. And made a semi- Conical projectile out of that round ball. Yup flatish on the top and bottom.
Since the I've got a 1/4 in range rod from Kibler. I sometimes forget to grab it. And just use a wood rod. Wich I bounce an inch or so. I've also made a range rod that's about half aluminum and the bottom is brass. Fitted with a old nylon jagg.
I think at times my best shots are when using the wood ramrod.
And if using a brass rod, don't seat your ball untill that rod bounces.
I always bounce my ramrod, but just to make sure the ball and charge are properly loaded and compacted into the breech. I had no idea that it had any effect whatsover on performance. Thanks, @flatcreek for posting your interesting observations.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2016
- Messages
- 51
- Reaction score
- 104
I started shooting matches and hunting in 1971. I used a range rod at matches and wooden rods hunting. I never bounced the rods and I was always confident about the accuracy of each rifle reguardless of which rod was used.
This is what I do also for over 40 years
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2021
- Messages
- 2,832
- Reaction score
- 6,062
So.... hypothetical situation.
Lets say you are shooting away at the range and after shooting a few rounds you find that by pushing you can not get the ball to go down to the witness mark on your rod (you do mark your rods so you know when the ball is seated on the powder correct?).
This is probably due to a crud ring being built up but regardless there is probably a gap between the ball and the powder.
Do you.
A. Just shoot it anyway, the barrel is strong enough to take it and not bulge.
B. Bounce the rod to seat the ball.
Edit, a little epoxy on a jag and a ball with some release agent makes for a rod end that perfectly matches the diameter of the ball, just saying.
Lets say you are shooting away at the range and after shooting a few rounds you find that by pushing you can not get the ball to go down to the witness mark on your rod (you do mark your rods so you know when the ball is seated on the powder correct?).
This is probably due to a crud ring being built up but regardless there is probably a gap between the ball and the powder.
Do you.
A. Just shoot it anyway, the barrel is strong enough to take it and not bulge.
B. Bounce the rod to seat the ball.
Edit, a little epoxy on a jag and a ball with some release agent makes for a rod end that perfectly matches the diameter of the ball, just saying.
flatcreek
40 Cal
If the ball doesn't go to the mark there is something wrong that needs to be remedied, double balled, double charged, or crud keeping it from going down. I certainly would not shoot it, I would try bouncing the rod, putting some patch lube down the barrel and if all failed pull the ball.
Similar threads
