To Bounce or not to Bounce

[Siringo]

I think the bouncing thing is poppycock made up years ago because one
shooter did it that won a competition.

Consistency is always the key. Especially in bore prep between shots.

As far as ramming the patched ball down, I carry a bathroom scale with me (even hunting) in a special possible bag to make sure my pressure is always the same. Just kidding.

 

[Mike in FL]

Not to disparage anyone's style or method, but bouncing just seems showy and without purpose. Although we all develop habits, bouncing appears amatuerish. I don't see that throwing the rod down the barrel can have any affect on the ball as far as moving it unless it has been inserted very loosely. Everytime I see it I think that shooter has little potential, but now I'm hearing here that many seasoned shooters do it. So now I'm not so sure that it is not helpful. If the rod is marked and a proper loading has been accomplished, why bounce? Can anyone say the mark moves in relationship to the muzzle after the rod is bounced? Now, with all that said, after the ball is seated from the initial shoving down, I have been guilty, stupidly guilty, of one last push on the ramrod BEFORE looking at the mark. I think that habit is born from doubt that the ball is seated. I am working on simply checking the mark before that second push. Another point about consistency is that after the ball is down against the powder, the ball can be pounded deeper by compressing the load aggressively. I think the solution would be placing the mark on the rod after the shooter is satisfied the ball is where it should be from then on. Whatever method we use, we should trust that mark. Personally. I don't shoot well enough offhand to see a difference in grouping if my load is slightly over or under the mark.

 

[acesneights]

When i first started shooting black powder 40 years ago i was told that the bounce was to verify that the ball and wad was sitting tight against the powder charge and not being held up by fouling and that there was no air pocket. The reasoning was that once the ball/wad/powder were all seated firmly in the breech, the ramrod would bounce against them, and without the the proper seating, the ramrod would just "thunk" against the partially seated ball and wad, driving them lower in the barrel, but not seating them yet. I think it was when sabots and pointed bullets came into more popular use that the manufacturers started to say that a solid seat was all that was needed, about 20ish years ago it the bounce seemed to go out of favor. I still bounce round balls and ballets occasionally, but everything else just gets seated firmly, although i do wonder after a few shots if they are getting hung up occasionally.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Ned Roberts was shooting long range targets, and also sometimes shooting round ball. Here's what he has to say, found in The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle....

p. 103
"Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not "whang" the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. If the ball and patch does not slide fairly easy down the bore from a point about six inches from the muzzle by applying pressure to the ramrod, the patch is too thick, or the ball too large for the rifle, and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy."

LD

 

[French Colonial]

Ned Roberts was shooting long range targets, and also sometimes shooting round ball. Here's what he has to say, found in The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle....

p. 103
"Do not ram, or pound, the ball down the bore, and do not "whang" the ball with the ramrod onto the powder—simply seat the ball firmly on the powder with a light pressure on the ramrod. If the ball and patch does not slide fairly easy down the bore from a point about six inches from the muzzle by applying pressure to the ramrod, the patch is too thick, or the ball too large for the rifle, and ramming or pounding the ball down the bore will upset it making it merely a slug of lead instead of a sphere and thus destroy all accuracy."

LD

And he was probably wiping between shots

 

[Loyalist Dave]

And he was probably wiping between shots

Yeah I'd be really surprised if he wasn't

LD

 

[FishDFly]

Last night I read an old thread about bouncing the ramrod so today I gave it a try. Everything shot at 40 yd, 50 cal 50 gr 3f. The top 3 holes are bouncing the under barrel wood ramrod and the bottom 4 is pushing it down and tapping it once with a brass range rod ( my normal way of loading). What I see is the bounce made the velocity higher and maybe the push is a little more accurate. I figured the bounce would flatten the ball and make it fit tighter, intern giving more velocity and engage the rifling better. The bounce definitely raised POI as to the bottom being more accurate, well that's a question mark as I'm not the greatest shot in the world.
Just for fun, Phil

Forrest Gump coms to mind.

 

[45man]

I never bounce but the same pressure must be applied so I made this tool. It has a strong spring inside, I put it on the ramrod and compress the spring fully so the ball is seated well.

 

[kelvinator]

I don't bounce, unless I'm on a trampoline.
But I remember my granddad doing it and he won a many shoots back in the 70's and 80's.

 

[wiscoaster]

....The reasoning was that once the ball/wad/powder were all seated firmly in the breech, the ramrod would bounce against them, and without the the proper seating, the ramrod would just "thunk" against the partially seated ball and wad, ....

That is exactly what happens, in my experience. Also, when the load is properly seated, the ramrod makes a "clank" sound. If not, it makes a "thump" sound. Hopefully one also knows the proper depth the ramrod should go down to when a loaded is properly rammed, and subsequently notes its depth when ramming the next shot, but the sound the ramrod makes when it's "bounced" is helpful.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Well I’m joining the no bounce club starting today.

 

[Antelope Pete]

Can anyone say the mark moves in relationship to the muzzle after the rod is bounced?

Yes I can.

 

[kyron4]

Can anyone say the mark moves in relationship to the muzzle after the rod is bounced?

I load with a 3/8" steel range rod and seat the ball firmly with my body weight . After a few shots it will be be just shy of the mark on the rod. This is most likely from fouling being pushed to the bottom of the breach. If I slam the rod a few times I can get the line level with the muzzle, but am I seating the load more or just smashing the lead down ?

 

[SDSmlf]

View attachment 336370
View attachment 336371

You may want to include the Muzzleblasts Eric Bye’s article for those not familiar with concept. Link in post below.

maybe look for a KaDooty Ultimate Muzzleloading Tool, one of those documented muzzleloader wonder solutions looking for a problem to solve. Imagine any old new stock ones would bring a premium to the ramrod bouncing crowd.
https://www.muzzleblasts.com/Library.MBO/V4N3.MBO/Articles.V4N3.MBO/A7.V4N3.MBO.shtml

 

[maillemaker]

In N-SSA competition I see many a shooter that repeated bash the ramrod against their projectile before firing.

I agree that consistency is key. I don't think there is any need to smash the heck out of the bullet though.

Prior to the invention of the expanding ball, there were experiments with using the ramrod to smash the bullet to make it expand to take up the rifling. One was the "Carabine à tige", where there was a small spike in the bottom of the breech, and the infantryman would smash the bullet onto the spike using the ramrod.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabine_à_tige

Another had a patent breech, and smashing the ball onto it caused it to mushroom and again, take up the rifling.

The problem they had was the infantryman would not consistently smash the bullet each time. So, accuracy was inconsistent.

The expanding ball eliminated the need to use the ramrod to manually deform the bullet to take up the rifling.

 

[Frontier's]

I'd like to see some one smash the ball into the rifling by simply throwing their ramrod onto the ball to seat it "properly " you'd like to literally smash the living heck out of it before it flared enough to engage the rifling. By then, you'd really have some inconsistency.

 

[R Ellis]

Seems to me a light wood ramrod is not likely to damage the bullet with just a little bounce. Maybe repeated pounding but I dont think that is what we that bounce are doing. I know I just use a light bounce no pounding. So now you can dispute me if you wish.

 

[dave951]

You will never, ever get consistency with bouncing. But then again, some folks still drive Yugos.

 

[KSCrawford]

As many have said I bounce. I do it because I feel I get a consistent load due to it making sure no pockets in between powder and ball. the thud vs clank. I am not throwing it down, more of a encouraged drop. I have done that with deer around and if they did not see the movement they did not run. Had a fried that was new and had many misfires. got him to bounce it until the sound was correct and did not have any misfires.

 

[RobertIN]

I bounce. Still plenty accurate for my purposes.