To Brown or not to Brown

[Mulemauler]

Just finishing up a Fusil de Casse for a customer and was discussing the finish. These were almost always polished "armory" bright from the factory with some fire blued as a special order, but the discussion was what happened next. Prior to 1800 most arms were done this way. Most soldiers were issues brick dust or something similar to keep them polished and rust free but what did your civilian long hunter or pioneer do? Personally I can't imagine wanting my hunting gun to shine like a diamond when the sun hit it but did they immediately put something on it to cause it to patina or did they try to keep it bright? Given that a new rifle or smoothie was a considerable expense you know that they would have taken care to keep it sound and just letting her rust up just doesn't sound like something they would do. I've read lots of old journals and diaries but don't remember ever seeing a reference to this.

 

[Mgbruch]

I don't have n answer to your question; but I know that, if your fun is in the white, you don't have to let it rust. I left my iron mounted rifle in the white. When I clean the gun I always put a couple of drops of oil in the lock, and I oil the bore. If I'm going to be reloading, I'll run a dry patch down... but the bore still gets oiled with every cleaning. The last thing I do is to take the oiled patch and go over the entire gun, metal first. After five years the barrel is starting to show some natural browning at the breach, where the most fowling happens. The rest of the iron is a dull satin now. Not grey, but not bright metal.

So, I don't know what they did back in the day, but I know that it isn't a big deal to take care of iron that's in the white.

 

[Pete G]

So, I don't know what they did back in the day, but I know that it isn't a big deal to take care of iron that's in the white.

Especially if you have air conditioning

 

[Mgbruch]

No air conditioning here. But humidity is moderate to low. But your right; might not be that easy on the Florida coast.

 

[leadhoarder]

I imagine that a lot of in the white stuff developed patina with use. From contact with blood or anything acidic.

 

[R Ellis]

Brown it

 

[Mulemauler]

Customer and I decided to leave it in the white. It was the way it would have looked as a new gun and really very pretty, but the question was what a new owner. who just picked it up from the factor, and was heading out on an extended treck in 1760 do? Would they have left it shiny and bright (and tried to keep it this way) or would they have treated it in some way to take off the shine. If so, what would they have done or used? How were new guns of the period treated by civilians?

 

[BillyC]

Looks great to me. FWIW all of my unmentionables have the bluing worn off where my hands have been for a few decades and no rust at all, just a nice gray patina. I do wipe everything down with a rag after I’m done for the day though and we have some pretty high humidity in Pittsburgh PA

 

[rchas]

People today are not that different than people in the 18th century. We get something new, bright and shiny, and we like to try and keep it that way. How many of us anguish over a ding on a new car?

New goods in the 18th century were new... and people did the best they could to maintain them with the resources they had. I think this trend of artificially aging guns to make them seem more AUTHENTIC would be viewed as negligence/abuse of an expensive and valued investment.

 

[springfield art]

Just finishing up a Fusil de Casse for a customer and was discussing the finish. These were almost always polished "armory" bright from the factory with some fire blued as a special order, but the discussion was what happened next. Prior to 1800 most arms were done this way. Most soldiers were issues brick dust or something similar to keep them polished and rust free but what did your civilian long hunter or pioneer do? Personally I can't imagine wanting my hunting gun to shine like a diamond when the sun hit it but did they immediately put something on it to cause it to patina or did they try to keep it bright? Given that a new rifle or smoothie was a considerable expense you know that they would have taken care to keep it sound and just letting her rust up just doesn't sound like something they would do. I've read lots of old journals and diaries but don't remember ever seeing a reference to this.

I'll bet some civvies did one thing, others the opposite. I would think deer would spook if a mirror-bright sun reflected flash shot out of the woods!

 

[Mulemauler]

I'll bet some civvies did one thing, others the opposite. I would think deer would spook if a mirror-bright sun reflected flash shot out of the woods!

That is exactly my point but have never read anything to tell me what they did about it. The military arms were kept bright and Heaven help the soldier who allowed a spot of rust. When Robert Rogers was putting together his Rangers he worked by a different set of rules than the regular army, they wanted to be able to move through the woods unobserved and a shiny musket just doesn't do this. A long hunter of the period spent months in hostile territory and usually would have preferred to be unobserved, but have never heard what they did about it. Just letting their most valuable tool rust up doesn't sound like something they would do so I'm curious what they did do. With the centuries of accumulated research knowledge by members of this forum I'm pretty sure someone out there knows.

 

[Mulemauler]

People today are not that different than people in the 18th century. We get something new, bright and shiny, and we like to try and keep it that way. How many of us anguish over a ding on a new car?

New goods in the 18th century were new... and people did the best they could to maintain them with the resources they had. I think this trend of artificially aging guns to make them seem more AUTHENTIC would be viewed as negligence/abuse of an expensive and valued investment.

I agree and have always wondered why a historical reenactor would go to such great length on clothing and accoutrements but want to carry a rifle that looked like it belonged to their Great, Great Grandpa.

Far and away most of the rifles I build are browned. For a rifle style that is representative of one built after 1800 this may be correct but not the bleached, peroxided or deep pitted rust finish usually seen.

 

[IanH]

This is a good question and hopefully someone has some insight, and perhaps a bibliography.

From a practical standpoint, iron "in the white" is miserable to maintain. I like my new guns to be "as new" and intend to age them the old-fashioned way by taking them to the range and woods often, but have yet to find something other than varnish that prevents rust below the stock line for any length of time. It's easy to keep the exposed parts from rusting. I can't imagine a frontiersman or buckskinner taking the barrel out of the stock very often, if ever.

By the way, that fusil is absolutely gorgeous and perfectly assembled, one of the best I've seen in a while. What lock did you use? Did you facet the pan yourself?

 

[springfield art]

I'd think the steel would go naturally "dull" after a short while considering the rough conditions everyone lived in back then. Might just take on a patina and self-stabilize.

 

[Mulemauler]

This is a good question and hopefully someone has some insight, and perhaps a bibliography.

From a practical standpoint, iron "in the white" is miserable to maintain. I like my new guns to be "as new" and intend to age them the old-fashioned way by taking them to the range and woods often, but have yet to find something other than varnish that prevents rust below the stock line for any length of time. It's easy to keep the exposed parts from rusting. I can't imagine a frontiersman or buckskinner taking the barrel out of the stock very often, if ever.

By the way, that fusil is absolutely gorgeous and perfectly assembled, one of the best I've seen in a while. What lock did you use? Did you facet the pan yourself?

Thank you. The lock is a Davis. The pan has the facets cast in. They are good, fast locks but need a lot of polishing.

 

[longcruise]

I rejuvenated a GPR a few years ago and decided to.go in the white. It never did have a real shine and soon became quite dull. Leaned against a tree even on a sunny day it doesn't particularly draw the eye.

 

[wiscoaster]

I don't have n answer to your question; but I know that, if your fun is in the white, you don't have to let it rust. ....

So, I don't know what they did back in the day, but I know that it isn't a big deal to take care of iron that's in the white.

I agree. I've stripped and polished several blued guns and if they're kept clean and lightly oiled and, I suppose out of the salt air (not a problem here), rusting is simply not a problem.

Before:

After, around five years later - no rust:

 

[wiscoaster]

....

From a practical standpoint, iron "in the white" is miserable to maintain. ....

Sorry, I disagree to a certain extent. I think all depends on whether or not the steel has been highly polished, and how and where the gun is kept and used. If it's highly polished, and lightly oiled, there's simply very little opportunity and surface area for rust to get started. The gun I pictured above is not stainless, just highly polished steel, and it gets a quick exterior wipe with any oily rag maybe once a year. And like I said, no rust. I don't think anyone who wants their firearm in-the-white need be too concerned, unless maybe it's a real working weapon, out in all kinds of weather, all the time. Mine aren't, but I don't consider storing in a box in a controlled environment with a once-a-year wipedown to be really babying it.

 

[IanH]

Sorry, I disagree to a certain extent. I think all depends on whether or not the steel has been highly polished, and how and where the gun is kept and used. If it's highly polished, and lightly oiled, there's simply very little opportunity and surface area for rust to get started. The gun I pictured above is not stainless, just highly polished steel, and it gets a quick exterior wipe with any oily rag maybe once a year. And like I said, no rust. I don't think anyone who wants their firearm in-the-white need be too concerned, unless maybe it's a real working weapon, out in all kinds of weather, all the time. Mine aren't, but I don't consider storing in a box in a controlled environment with a once-a-year wipedown to be really babying it.

Like I wrote above, exposed metal is easy to keep from rusting. It's the other parts that aren't, and even just a humid day at the range or stepping outside from the air conditioning into a warm, humid day a few times will get you some ugly surprises when you take the metal out of the wood. Water and cleaning solutions are also likely to get spilled or trickle between wood and metal where you can't easily get to it in most traditional arms (unless military band or wedge systems), causing rust.

Browning and bluing will hold oil, wax, or RIG for a long time below the stock line, bare metal will not.

 

[Mulemauler]

Besides building new guns I also have done a lot of restoration work. Recently a full stock Hawken that had been built in the 1980's came into the shop. It looked pretty good until I pulled the barrel from the stock. Was deeply rusted and wood in the barrel channel in bad shape. Owner said he'd never taken the barrel off the stock, just cleaned and oiled it while in place. This was the same for many old ones but multiplied by years of trapped moisture. This does tie into the original question. Many, if not most stocks were treated with a layer a shellack or other preservatives when first built but they were usually thin coats. What, if anything, would our 1760's long hunter have carried with him to use and prevent this?