TOTW Type C trade musket questians

[Leithan]

Just wondering if anyone has built one, and what they thought of it, this would be my first kit, My other 2 ML were both scratch built. I dont have the pashionce to scratch build another and thought a kit would be nice as well as id like to add a smoth bore to my colection.

PS. This is my first post, been lurking here awile, but with all the great info here this is the first time i have needed to ask a questian. :master:

 

[musketman]

Welcome, swing by the welcome section and grab yourself a cup of rum, er, coffee...

A trade musket, you say...

We have a few musket shooters/builders here, so hang loose and enjoy...

 

[Donny]

:boohoo:I built one, never again. First of all they did not tell me most of the parts were not in stock, the parts dribbled in over 9 months. The stock was last, so I could do little intil it did. :cry: ....Take a good look at the final on the buttplate, and triggerguard. They are supposed to be pre-inlet. However the metal parts do not fit, because they may have been bent, were not cast the same, or many possible reasons. ::...I would have been better off to start from scratch, than finish inletting these finals. I ended up being forced to sand off the raised area around the triggerguard, (a French detail). :boohoo:

 

[tg]

I have used TOW part for a couple of guns amd they work well, FWIW the so called type C they offer comes with a lock that is absolutety wrong for the type of gun (French 1720-1730) and this gun would more likely be a De Chase (hunting gun)than a (De Trait) trade gun with the furniture of that type, little in the way of authentic, researched French fusils are available.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Before you dive into the French trade gun pool, you need to do a bit of research. The following companies, at least, make trade and hunting guns in the French style. Track, Centermark, Narragansett Armes, Early Rustic Arms and Frenchfusils. Of these, Centermark and Early Rustic Arms have kits and/or in-the-white guns available, though generally in the 'fusil de chasse' type smooth bore guns. There are probably other makers and I would recommend you check the "links" of sites like "Historicaltrekking.com" and "FrontierFolk.net" as well as magazines like "Muzzleloader", "Muzzle Blasts" and others for lists of makers who advertise French guns. Good luck.

 

[tg]

As a follow up to the post by Wes, do not rely on any of the makers or suppliers for accurate info on these guns as far as PC goes, one maker offers a "fin" useing as having curly maple and an "ordinare" as having walnut. Once you read the works of Hamilton, Bouchard, and Lenk you can query most builders/suppliers and sort the wheat from the chaff and you will have a very large chaff pile when finished, but it is possible to come up with a very close replica of an early 18th century French gun.

 

[Rat]

I'll just say that I bought a Jeager "kit" from TOTW and was not very happy with it. The lock inletting was not good, and there's no way you can ADD wood. There also did not seem to be any wood to work with left in the tang area. The fore-end seemed warped to me. I got very frustrated with it and sent it to a "real" rifle maker, who told me right off that the stock was not good, and the grain did not run right through the wrist...it would have been very weak when done, even without the other problems, so that had to be replaced. It's a .62 that I'll be loading for Elk and Bear, so it's going to have some kick. (I had already worked on the stock, so TOW would not take it back)

I was also told by someone who knows Jeagers, that the buttplate and trigger-guard in my kit were not "compatible" from a "PC" standpoint. Or would that be "HC", historically correct?

If I had it to do over again, I'd spend the extra $$ and just have a rifle built for me, or buy a finished rifle, even if I had to make monthly payments on it, before I'd buy another TOW kit. Between having a rifle maker finish it, and the cost of a new stock, I didn't save any money going with a TOW "kit". Or time...it will probably be a full year before it's finished. (got it last Christmas)

Or if money was that tight I'd get a TVM "in the white" weapon.

Rat

 

[Musketeer]

Hey, Rat! How was the rest of the stuff on your TOTW kit? You know, like the lock, barrel, hardware, etc.? The quality of their metal stuff looks pretty decent on their site. Just curious. By the by, here's a little drawing I did several years ago. Could be a portrait of one of your kin! :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

 

[Rat]

HEY!!! That's my PAW!

:crackup:

I was satisfied with the all the iron. The Davis lock is beutiful. The Colerain barrel could be hung on the wall and admired all by it's self! The set triggers are really fine.

The ram-rod thimbles were fine...but quite ornate and I never would have been able to inlet them. So...no complaints there to be fair.

Seems like all the problems were with the wood, and now come to think about it, the ram-rod stock they sent me was warped and funky...could have found a better dowel at the local hardware store...!!!

Rat

 

[tg]

That is unfortunate about the wood, I might siggest that with TOW or any dealer to make it understood that if something is not satifactory it will be sent back and the progress of the exchange will be shared on many internet forums so that the dealers satisfactory customer relations repution will be shared with many future customers, as for the TOW non-PC Jaeger kit.....ya gotta do the homework, suppliers work off of a supply of stock parts and stretch many to come up with a variety of gun types, the modified Jeager lock TOW offers on some of their French guns is but one example.

 

[Musketeer]

Glad to hear all the metal parts were nice. I've been thinking of starting a new project myself, and am going to buy my hardware and such from TOTW. I've always just bought balls, powder, accoutrements, etc. from them, no parts. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

 

Bag and Mold company ,Jackson,Ohio. He has the finest parts for the French D and C Tulles. Good walnut and good parts. I have used his products and they look good and shoot very good. In my words ,don,t look like no store bought Center mark or Pedorsali. They have ads in the Musleblat and Muzzleloadermag. No web page that I know of. If I dig up the phone number ,I,ll post it. His barrels have won the smoothbore shoots in Friendship ,In. The ones I shot would cloverleaf at 25yards! He makes the castings and locks for Davis!!!

 

[tg]

I have seen the Mold shops adds which are interesting..a type C does not need be a Fusil fin nor does a type D need be a fusil ordinare one could have a type D furniture mounted with all the bells finely polished and ingraved and with a high end lock and have a Fusil fin or a gun with type C furniture rather plainly done and have a fusil ordinare the two furniture types basicly reflect a general trend in what type was used at different times in histoty, not whether the gun was fine or ordinary.I am not saying this vendors guns are not good just that their terminology is missleading.

 

[waturz]

I just recieved my Caywood Wilson Trade Gun and am very pleased. They offer Type C and D French guns in kit form, in the white, and complete guns. Quality is very good on their completed guns and I'm sure their kits would be of equal quality. Good Luck!

 

Danny Caywood and Mike Rowes products are very good . Dannys more into stocking and wood ,while Mike is a expert machining and lathe work. I spent hours talking and they are good people. Darn good turkey hunters too and they hunt with what they make. They even looked at one of my fowlers and said it had good lines. I like the Wilson trade gun. To me it looks right. Let us know how it shoots.

 

[Trot]

I don't know who makes the smoothbore barrels for TOTW but I have had rifles that didn't shoot as well as my NW trade gun from Track.

 

[musketman]

I don't know who makes the smoothbore barrels for TOTW

It says this on their page...

barrel, 20 gauge,
Fowler,
38" octagon-to-round, "C" profile, 3.64 lb,
flared tang plug, by Colerain

 

I have to chime in only because I built the Jaeger kit from TOTW. I bought the Jaeger book by Schumway and examined each photo and read all the text with a hunger and I found examples comparable with all of the parts in my TOTW kit. There were MANY different schools or styles of what is called a Jaeger rifle, even smoothbore jaegers, fancy ones and plain ones, single trigger or double, patchbox or not and more buttplate designs and stock profiles than you can shake a stick at and trigger gaurds differ with almost each photo and these pictures in the book are only a small sampling! My Jaeger kit had awsome wood and inletting and the only problems with it were due to my own inexperience in gun kit hacking. If you receive a poor component such as a stock from a supplier be sure to return it before you begin chopping into it (unless the defect manifests itself later into the build). Too bad you had the experience that you did with TOTW, I hope all the rest of your projects are much more satisfying.

 

I think the TOW barrels are comming from Bag and mold shop.