TOTW vs TVM

[Billnpatti]

If it is a straight barrel, I'd pick the 36 inch barrel because of the weight and balance factors. If it is a swamped barrel, I'd go with the 42 inch barrel for the nicer aesthetics. The swamped barrel will take care of some of the weight and the balance will be quite nice.

 

[FishDFly]

TOTW Colonial Longrifle -- $550 ish depending on options. Can be picked up in person.

Given a choice, would you prefer to pick up your Bride and do an inspection or have UPS dropped her off on the porch?

Picking up in person saves it from being damaged in shipping.

For a one dollar difference, there would be no decisions to ask anyone.

 

[Mickc01]

Tracks Isaac Haines 1770 Lancaster (in steel)

I'm enjoying this thread and really don't have much to add since I have never, nor will probably ever, assemble a "kit" of this level. It just really exceeds my abilities. But, I would ask, did this picture on the TOW website note who builder is? IMHO that's really who makes the difference between an assembled kit of parts and a finely crafted, well made, correctly styled rilfe....Just my 2 cents, Mick C :hatsoff:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Good luck with whichever you choose.
My concern is that you do not understand just how much work you are getting into with a basic bag of parts. :shocked2:
There is an old saying that anyone can turn a $1,000.00 (or $500.00) in a $100.00 rifle.
Buy a book or two before making any decisions.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Track's hours are a real PITA if you want to go in there personally. If you're trying to get in there close to the end of the day, there's a fat dumpy crabby woman named Carol that really despises customers. I was in the middle of buying stuff and ringing out at 5:00 a couple of times, and she basically just stomped on the sales guy and canceled the transaction, after I had driven an hour to get there.

So if there is ANY option for you other than Track, to get the same stuff, I would take it in a heart beat.

 

[hanshi]

I've had 6 guns built by Matt Avance at TVM and they are top of the line builds, I can assure you. My .36 has a 38" x 3/4" barrel which works great. I have a .45 with a 36" barrel and it is always a good choice. You can get other locks/barrels/etc from TVM though sometimes it may cost a little extra. Regardless who makes them, TVM's Silers are super reliable. As far as quality is concerned it's probably a toss up since they both get their parts from the same places.

 

[azmntman]

Carol just needs lovin :grin: ! Next time send her some flowers the day before! :rotf:

I know what ya mean though, I personally have a "one screw rule". Everybody can screw me once :cursing: ...NOBODY gets a second turn! :grin:

 

[longcruise]

Ok, just one last thing 😊 this has been sorta mentioned but bears clarifying. Chambers locks are a very good choice. They are available from many different vendors. BUT, many are bought in bulk as lock parts and built/assembled by the vendor. Purchased directly from Chambers assures the lock is assembled and tuned in the chambers shop! I don't have enough hands on experience to know for sure how much difference there is. Others here may elaborate.

I will say that I once chose an L&R Durs Egg and did not like the feel of it. Got a chambers ketland instead (ordered direct from them) and liked it much better.

 

[Snakebite]

Not trying to throw a wrench in, but there maybe another possible choice. Chamber's York County rifle. I wonder if you could special order it in .36. They do offer a .40. Just a thought.

 

[Greebe]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

First I would like to ask what you guys think would make a HC rifle in the style I am looking at. Would just adding a swamped barrel make it HC?

Here is what I am thinking. I might just buy a Golden Age flintlock directly from Chambers, get a Colerain Isaac Haines A profile 38" swamped barrel, and a then find a Lancaster style stock. Or maybe just chicken out and buy a kit. Hehe But really maybe I should just start buying components instead of worrying about a kit.

I need to go to bed so fair well for tonight.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, no, just a swamped barrel won't make it a very historically accurate Isaac Haines Lancaster.

Like it or don't Lancaster rifles are usually brass mounted with barrels in the 40-48 inch long range. The guns of Isaac Haines, being made about the time of the American Revolution were also fairly large in their caliber.

No. I'm not saying that somewhere in Lancaster County someone didn't make a steel mounted, small caliber, short barreled rifle but if they did I've never read about it.

Now, that was in answer to your question.

My opinion is, it's your money and you should spend it for whatever length, caliber, furniture material gun you really want.

The only people that will care if your gun is HC are the serious reinactors and if you don't join them and get dressed up in AWI cloths, their opinions should mean very little to you.

 

[necchi]

I believe there is value in being able to "see" the items your picking up,
I don't want to speculate TOW or TVM,,
But I'll add that if your moving to Minn, or picking up at the shop (limited hours) there is a 7.5% state sales tax to add to the tab.

 

[tenngun]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Since there were so many responses since last night I am just going to do a general response to everyone.

As far as a time line goes for getting a kit, I would like to get something this summer to start working on. My birthday is coming up soon but we will be moving next month, so I am not in a huge rush to get it until we get moved.

So it seems like the consensus is to get my parts from TOTW. I am fine with that as long as I can still get steel parts from them. That was my main reason for looking at the TVM kit, is the steel furniture. I know it might not be as HC as brass but I like it better.

I am aware that these are not a drop in kit. That is not something I want anyways. I got one of those many years ago and was not happy with the fit and it was a bit boring because it really was just a finish and assemble type of deal. I built a cap and ball revolver when I was about 12 which had all the rough casting that had to be filed, fit, finish. It turned out nicely and was a fun project.

Also it seems like you guys all mention that the kit from TOTW is not really HC because of the straight barrel. I would like the swamped better but it was not an option.

Would I be better off just getting the barrel, lock and then find a stock that I could inlet to the barrel and lock?

I do not mind piecing together my own kit if I know everything that I will need, which I could find out by looking at the TOTW kits.

BTW here is the rifle I would really like but do not have the funds for right now.

Tracks Isaac Haines 1770 Lancaster (in steel)

Thanks,
Greebe
just got a chance to read your reply. Track does sell all its parts on an a la cart bases. You can also get a stock blank throgh them or thier supplier pecotonc with the barrel channel un cut or cut to your smallest dimmension. Track does sell swamped barrels and some of thier precarves have enough extra wood on to alow a swamped barrel. Pecotonic is also a good supply house and the have trated me top notch when I have done bussinesswith them

 

[Vaino]

Again....if'n I was you, here's what I would do. Get a TOW precarve w/o the lock inlet, use a Rice "A" weight 42" swamped bbl, Chambers Golden Age flintlock {ensure that Chambers assembled it} and use brass hardware which you can darken or age w/ cold blue. This should satisfy your weight requirement, would look like a "LONGRIFLE" and be HC. If your aversion to brass hardware is overwhelming, then buy the "iron".

The disadvantage of doing the above...in addition to the wait for the other components, is that the Rice bbl probably would also be on a long backorder.

Although my Bucks county LR pictured in the TOW "kit" section has a different style than a Lancaster, the .36 cal. bbl on this LR is as described above....very light weight and excellent balance.

However you decide to go, Good luck w/ your build.....Fred

 

[Greebe]

Thanks again for the comments.

So I think I am getting more confident on my decision.

I have one more question. Would German Silver / Nickel Silver furniture be more HC then steel for this time period and style?

I guess the main reason behind wanting something other then brass is I like a more subdued look. I know brass can be darkended with BP fouling, which is what I did to my .54 cal, but it is still a little more contrasty then I care for. However it would be nice if I could build something fairly HC in case I every want to get into the re-enactment / rendezvous thing.

Thanks,
Greebe

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks again for the comments.

So I think I am getting more confident on my decision.

I have one more question. Would German Silver / Nickel Silver furniture be more HC then steel for this time period and style?

I guess the main reason behind wanting something other then brass is I like a more subdued look. I know brass can be darkended with BP fouling, which is what I did to my .54 cal, but it is still a little more contrasty then I care for. However it would be nice if I could build something fairly HC in case I every want to get into the re-enactment / rendezvous thing.

Thanks,
Greebe

We all have our wants/needs likes/dislikes. Your main consideration for a new rifle seems to be that it is HC, yer right and yer choice.
I have a rifle that is perfectly HC and love it. But that is not the reason.
My deciding factor for a rifle I like is when I pick it up, look at it and hold it. Does it 'wow' me and feel right in my hands? If it does, I love it. Otherwise I hand it back with little or no comment.
I hope your new rifle 'wows' you.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

As I have noted before I have had several bad experiences with Matt Avance at TVM. I don’t think they are bad people but they do not put out a quality product. One of the issues I had with them was with the Siler locks they build from Chambers parts. Two of them I got from them needed extensive work to function correctly.
I have not had any problems from the stuff I got from Tip Curtis. The rifle I am building now I putting together from parts from various vendors including TOW, Tip Curtis, and a couple of others. It wasn’t that hard to do and I got the parts I wanted when I wanted them.

 

[Vaino]

German silver or any other silver looks "gaudy" IMO when used for a LR's hardware,.....a cheek piece star or other small inlay in silver adds a nice touch and silver wire inlay is also appropriate, but silver hardware in Isaac Haines times....no.

Below is an early Virginia LR on which I took the liberty of using all "iron" hardware, including the Pbox. It's one of my favorites along w/ the "iron mounted" Hawkens which I've made. Don't really know if "iron" hardware was HC for such a LR, but the customer surely does like it.

All my latest LR builds have brass hardware because in my old age, I've come to appreciate the HC aspect. But, as the saying goes and as w/ the non-HC advice you'll receive...."it's your gun so build it as you wish"......Fred

 

[longcruise]

Wow Fred, I do like that patchbox!

 

[54ball]

OK Stop and think for a moment.

Do you really want to build or would you be happier with a finished rifle? The reason I ask is building is a hobby all it's own that requires learning several skills and a significant outlay of time, tools and effort. If building to save money...forget it. If building for the sake of building and creating something tangible, proceed.

Do some research. A longrifle is a considerable expense, so do the research in exactly what you want.
Do not be chained to whats available in kit form. From what I have read, you want a early period rifle in .36 caliber. Although historically correct there are not many early long rifle kits offered in .36.
So what do you do?
How about building up your own parts set?

Example...
You have decided on a 1770s Lancaster in 36. You want a proportional well handling rifle so you order a 42" swamped A weight barrel.
You send that barrel to a stocker like Knob Mountain Muzzleloading or Jacks Mountain Stocks and have them inlet the barrel into one of their stock patterns.
You decide on a wood box rifle since you do not like a lot of brass and you go ahead and order your furniture from Knob mountain or piece it together from other suppliers based on research.
You order your lock from Chambers or whoever has the best that fits your build.
When you get your stock the barrel will be fully inlet except for the breech plug and tang.
You will have to inlet the lock ect ect and of course do the shaping down to the A profile.
When done you will have a PC rifle that is not commonly available in kit form.

If you study and do research you can do all sorts of things with the suppliers available.

For instance, lets say you want to build a early Southern gun based on an original that you have studied. The stock pattern is not available in kit form.
You study one of these stockers inventory of patterns and find a stock pattern that is remarkably close to your chosen rifle but it's from a different region and school. You end up building a rifle that is identical to the original rifle you have studied, even though the stock was originally for another school of rifle.
This takes study and the educated eye.

Lastly, you can always build from a blank.