Touch hole liner conundrum

[Elmhurst80]

So I recently picked up a new to me custom build .36 Northampton county rifle. Based on the condition of the frizzen face and the bore, I'm confident it had never been shot. In two trips to the range it has really proven to be a tack driver, but today while cleaning, my heart really sank. I've noticed that often at the breech, the jag would stick a bit. Didn't really think too much of it, but today I checked and it turns out that the ramrod isn't reaching the breech at all, it's hanging up on the touch hole liner which clearly has been installed too deep. My first thought is, this needs to be replaced, but now I have another issue. The liner extends the entire width of the barrel flat, so I do not think it would be possible to drill out the old liner and install a larger one. Would it be advisable to try an easy out, then find a liner with the same threads, or am I making too big of a deal of this, and just shoot it as is?

 

[French Colonial]

You need to get the liner out of it and either shorten it if you do not ruin it on removal, or replace it with a new one that you shorten before final assembly.

You need to clean all the way to the breach face.

 

[denster]

Get a breech face scraper and reduce its size a small amount to clear the liner. Use that to scrape the breech face then use a wad of tow around a worm to finish the job. You will also find that a wad of tow on a worm will clean a barrel better than a patch on a jag for the entire job.

 

[waksupi]

It will be best to remove and replace. Vents are cheap.

 

[Eric Krewson]

Pull your breechplug and grind off the excess metal in the breech, problem solved. I did the same on my first white lightning install, I put it in full length and sawed off the lug on the outside before I realized how much of the liner was protruding into the barrel. I used needle file to remove the excess carefully and not get into the rifling. I did a little adjustment on the next build and used a Dremel with a very fine diamond bit which was easier and quicker.

I found this after I drilled for a white lightning liner on my last build, Dremel tool to the rescue again. I took this picture with a $9 eBay scope.

I have a gun that had the percussion drum extend to far into the bore for a jag to clear. The previous owner didn't know this so it sat with a puddle of water on the breechplug from cleaning. I caught this right off and pulled the breechplug to check things out. The breech was completely bridged over with rust.

This is from the breech to just past the drum as best as I could clean it out. The rest of the barrel is pristine and is very accurate. I shortened the drum and fixed the initial problem. Of course, I have a Teslong scope.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Can we see a picture of @Elmhurst80's touch hole liner? By having a picture of the line, we would be able to provide better advice on the removal and possible replacement. With a traditional breech, you should be able to run the ramrod and cleaning jag all the way to the face of the breech plug. @denster is proposing a sort of reasonable stopgap measure to clean the face of the breech plug that will keep fouling reduced at the breech face and exit from the touch hole to the powder charge. The best solution will be to remove the touch hole liner and shorten the threads to the wall of the barrel. Be sure to remove any burs on the inside of the threaded hole before reinstalling the touch hole liner.

@Eric Krewson has the best solution if you have the tools to remove the breech plug and it is a traditional breech rifle.

 

[Elmhurst80]

Thanks so much for all the replies. I had thought about removing the breech plug as was mentioned, but looking at it from the tang I do not see any breech plug seam, as seen in the photo, but then again the browning may be covering it as well. If I can find the time today I will pull the barrel and get a better look. I have also attached a photo of the touch hole liner.

 

[user 34300]

My SOP is to remove the part of the liner that projects into the bore, as well as any burs. I do that from the inside after the liner is installed. A ball stone for a Dremil will do it nicely. Precautions must be taken. I do not want it chatter all over the bore and messing it up. I make a tube out of brass. An area large enough to to allow the liner to protrude through is cut out at the seam, shown in grey. I do the grinding through the brass tube. When done the liner will match the bore.

 

[reddogge]

the breech plug removal and filing or grinding the liner is an easy task. I did that with the last rifle I built.

 

[rich pierce]

Agree with Eric. I use a fine small half round file. Unbreech it! Trust us, there’s a seam there between barrel and tang on the top flat. It’s so coarsely browned you can’t see it.

 

[Elmhurst80]

Agree with Eric. I use a fine small half round file. Unbreech it! Trust us, there’s a seam there between barrel and tang on the top flat. It’s so coarsely browned you can’t see it.

Figured that was most likely the case. Won't really have time to get to it until most likely mid week. I will post the results once finished. Truly appreciate all the help gents.

 

[M. De Land]

So I recently picked up a new to me custom build .36 Northampton county rifle. Based on the condition of the frizzen face and the bore, I'm confident it had never been shot. In two trips to the range it has really proven to be a tack driver, but today while cleaning, my heart really sank. I've noticed that often at the breech, the jag would stick a bit. Didn't really think too much of it, but today I checked and it turns out that the ramrod isn't reaching the breech at all, it's hanging up on the touch hole liner which clearly has been installed too deep. My first thought is, this needs to be replaced, but now I have another issue. The liner extends the entire width of the barrel flat, so I do not think it would be possible to drill out the old liner and install a larger one. Would it be advisable to try an easy out, then find a liner with the same threads, or am I making too big of a deal of this, and just shoot it as is?

Does the flash hole liner cut into the breech plug face or is it ahead of the intersection of the plug face and barrel shoulder ? I prefer to fit my liners slightly ahead of this intersection leaving a complete circle of shoulder seal against the breech plug face.
I like to index my home made flash hole liners and then cut the interior to the same arc profile as the barrel groove so that they flush out leaving only the land height of the bore to hook fouling. This leaves the least amount of interference between bore and flash hole liner that accumulates fouling I've been able to come up with.
Actually I been thinking that smooth boring/reaming out the lands of the barrel to just ahead of the flash hole liner intersection after the liner has been installed proud and then seating the breech plug last, might be a better mouse trap for breech fouling control and removal. The powder volume alone of a normal charge would fill this area leaving the patch ball fully engaged in the rifling ahead of it.

 

[Elmhurst80]

Does the flash hole liner cut into the breech plug face or is it ahead of the intersection of the plug face and barrel shoulder ?

If I drop an undersized rod down the barrel, mark and measure that way, it looks the liner is just ahead of the intersection but by no more than 1/8" and possibly less, but I may be incorrect. Not exactly using the most precise measuring method.

 

[duca]

Easy-out the Liner and all your answers will be Answered

 

[rich pierce]

M. De Land, your proposed breech modification might result in patches falling off a jag, as the effective diameter will be 0.020” greater than the rest of the bore.

 

[M. De Land]

M. De Land, your proposed breech modification might result in patches falling off a jag, as the effective diameter will be 0.020” greater than the rest of the bore.

I think a fluted brass jag turned a bit longer than the smooth bore section (groove diameter) would hold the patch securely. I doubt the smooth bore from breech plug face past the top side liner blend would need be over .400 long tapered 45 degrees back into full land height.
I like to cut 4 longitudinal grooves at 90 degrees to each other in my brass patch jags to keep the patch from slipping rotation-ally on the jag.
A lengthened brass jag to fit this modified chamber area would be easy to fabricate in my lathe if needed.
I'd like to get the rifling out of the corner of the breech plug face and barrel shoulder seat for better fouling removal.

 

[Mulebrain]

Of course depends on barrel wall thickness. With breech removed, I use a dremel and grind it flush with the inside of the barrel.

 

[Joemolf]

So I recently picked up a new to me custom build .36 Northampton county rifle. Based on the condition of the frizzen face and the bore, I'm confident it had never been shot. In two trips to the range it has really proven to be a tack driver, but today while cleaning, my heart really sank. I've noticed that often at the breech, the jag would stick a bit. Didn't really think too much of it, but today I checked and it turns out that the ramrod isn't reaching the breech at all, it's hanging up on the touch hole liner which clearly has been installed too deep. My first thought is, this needs to be replaced, but now I have another issue. The liner extends the entire width of the barrel flat, so I do not think it would be possible to drill out the old liner and install a larger one. Would it be advisable to try an easy out, then find a liner with the same threads, or am I making too big of a deal of this, and just shoot it as is?

like Eric shows remove breach plug and with a round burr grind it to match barrel.

 

[Rebel bull]

be cautious if that is a Spanish made barrel you cannot pull the breech plug, they install their bolsters into the breech plug and then install a liner into the bolster.

 

[Grenadier1758]

From what I am seeing in your photos, you have a traditional breech. As @rich pierce suggests, the seam line for the tang/breech plug has been hidden by the browning. The seam is likely to back at the end of the barrel.

Your tang/breech plug will look like one of these as shown in the Track of the Wolf catalog. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/661/1
Yours has been customized to have the point on the end. You can verify the breech plug style when the barrel is removed.

Removing a breech plug is fairly straightforward, but you need the proper equipment. You need a sturdy bench vise solidly mounted to a workbench with the appropriate blocks to protect the barrel and keep it from turning in the vise. Hardwood blocks will do. I recommend putting the carboard center tube from a roll of toilet paper over the barrel where the barrel is in the vise. Several rifle barrel makers also have barrel vise jaws. Here is the Rice version.
https://ricebarrels.com/product/barrel-vise-jaws/
They also have a breech plug wrench that provides a precision fit to remove the breech plug. A large crescent wrench used from the bottom with a pipe over the handle will work as well. I use some thin leather in the jaws of the wrench to protect the breech plug. Be sure to mark the bottom of the barrel and breech plug with index marks so the breech plug and the barrel can be realigned on reassembly.